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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:21 pm 
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Don't forget to tip your waitresses!
I tried that once. After she got up off the floor, she hauled off and socked me right in the jaw.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:52 pm 
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Supercharged
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/6Dan.
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It's right down there on the stupidity scale with Ford's "Push inward on end of turn signal stalk to honk horn" crapola of the early '80s
.

Remember the rubber horn switch that ringed the inside of the steering wheel of several "upscale" Ford products back in the 70's or was it GM. It was some stupid transitional step from the big chrome horn ring. The damn horn was tooting every other turn of the wheel with those things.

I have the same unintended tooting when driving the K-Car rag top equipped with a sizable horn bar on each steering wheel spoke located out next to the wheel.

The airbag horn button is equally as frustrating as the previously mentioned devices except in the other direction. One can not toot the horn below 90 degrees due to the thermal stiffing of the plastic cover used. Only heavy handed blasts if you can find the little trumpet icon spot. I detest the damn things.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:29 pm 
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Remember the rubber horn switch that ringed the inside of the steering wheel of several "upscale" Ford products back in the 70's or was it GM.
Chrysler. The "Rim-blow" horn. Dumb idea.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:08 pm
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Location: Nelson, B.C.
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Confirm or deny this fact. The treachery and danger (my words) of the steering wheel pushbutton transmission paved the way for standardized column shift automatics
Nope. One had nothing to do with the other. The Edsel's electric pushbutton shift was long gone years before anyone had taken even the first hint of a notion to regulate auto controls and displays in North America. Chrysler dropped the pushbuttons (which even Ralphie Nader described as safer than a shift lever) because driving schools weren't buying Mopars due to their "not the same as GM and Ford" shifting setup, and Chrysler firmly believed that it was important to get Mopars into the country's driving schools to breed the next generation of Mopar buyers. I think that's kind of lame, but there it is. There are a lot of cracker barrel explanations for the end of the pushbutton trans. Fact is, not only were there no laws current or pending at the time, but there wasn't even a regulatory framework in which to make any such a law until 1968. The closest thing was that certain large-volume fleet buyers (government agencies, state motor pools, etc.) adopted a set of specs and requirements for the cars they would buy. Had to have reversing lights, had to have an automatic shift sequence that didn't place any reverse position right next to any forward drive position (the end of GM's dumb and unsafe P N D L R quadrant), had to have front and rear seatbelts, etc. In the absence of actual regulation, buying specs like this caused automakers to phase in what would now be considered (and was eventually codified as) improvements in safety equipment and performance. In North America, our vehicle equipment and safety regulations run very heavily towards simple codification of what the industry is already doing (i.e., what they want to do). This is still significantly true today, but it was very much more so in the 1960s. Whether codifying industry practice counts as meaningfully regulating auto safety (it doesn't) is a separate question.
Well now I know, and in the words of G.I. Joe "knowing is half the battle" Go Joe!! You sure have a wealth of knowledge locked away in that noodle of yours Dan. Any thoughts on putting some of that slant knowledge to paper in an easy reading coffee table book for car geeks like us? I know I'd buy a copy.

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:29 pm 
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Location: Everett, WA
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And what was the reasoning of getting rid of the foot control headlight dimmer?
Wellll...despite my comments above, it's just as good a location if your car is automatic (no preference either way) and it's significantly better if your car has a manual transmission (your left foot's already got enough to do). The signal stalk location also facilitates a "headlamp flash" function you can't have with a kickswitch. Also, with the column location you can use a less costly switch (built into the turn signal switch rather than a separate switch that also must be waterproof due to the floor location) and you've saved punching/drilling and waterproofing two floor holes, as well as removing one "gotta get it right" indexing location for the carpet and carpet padding. These kinds of things add up at the production level.

I don't object to the turn signal stalk beam selector as long as it's the kind you pull to change the beam (low to high or high to low). As I've already complained, the "push forward for high beam, pull back for low beam" types are dumb.
You can thank the sporty car magazines (Car & Driver, Road & Track, etc) of the mid '70s. They were always bemoaning the terriable postioning of controls in American cars, while praising the wonderful European cars. European cars had steering column mounted dimmer switches.

The reasoning for moving of the dimmer switch was because you could not dim your lights and manipulate the clutch at the same time.


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:26 pm 
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Supercharged
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Hog wash...
I have had several standard shift cars with the dimmer switch on the floor. Not a problem.

Just like it is not a problem to be on the cell phone and row through the gears for the younger generation...

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:12 pm 
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Just like it is not a problem to be on the cell phone and row through the gears for the younger generation...
Actually...yeah, it is. Well-thought-out, properly-done research has shown that driving while talking on a celphone, whether handheld or hands-free, increases danger to others and chances of crashing in much the same way and to much the same degree as being significantly over the blood-alcohol limit while driving.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:16 am 
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Supercharged
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Yeah, my point one foot click doesn't equal jabbering into a phone.

At one point we had a Ford, Mopar, and a GM at the same time in the fleet. I could never remember which way the dimmers worked on those vehicles. In he old days it was left foot click... Hummm, seems that left click stuff is still with us.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:28 am 
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At one point our family had a Caprice w/column auto, a Jetta w/floor auto, and the Lancer w/pushbutton auto. I had to be careful not to laugh when dad would get in one of the cars, start it up, and absentmindedly reach out and sweep at the wrong shifter locations before realising what car he was in.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:53 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:34 am
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Location: Lubbock, Texas
Car Model: 1964 Plymouth Valiant V200 Sedan
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The reasoning for moving of the dimmer switch was because you could not dim your lights and manipulate the clutch at the same time.
I'm not sure exactly when you'd need to do both simultaneously ...

... and can you shift with your right hand while working the stalk dimmer with your left and have good control of the wheel at the same time? (It takes a real man ... :wink:)

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