Looks like your numbers are spot on. Found 12256 and 12257 on Kragen/Schucks/Checker site that can be ordered for $6 a pair. Cheap enough, but thought I'd give a go at anyone here having a few spares laying around first. If not then I'll order new. Thanks for the tip and the numbers. I'm assuming jets are jets with holley and there is not a difference between the 1 barrel factory I have and ones that will fit in a 4 barrel aftermarket carb (standard jet, not alcohol etc.)?

Thanks for all your help. Just about to get out there and check that pulley this AM before it gets too hot out. Says supposed to be 91 degrees F today!

Cheers

_________________
From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

No difference between the two.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Thanks for the confirmation. Wonderful to have great people willing to help!

Did get a chance to check the pulley. Top dead centre is spot on within about a degree and a half or so. Went ahead and painted up the pulley and marked in 5 degree spots up to 60 degrees. Long lines for the 10's and small dots for the 5's in between. As it turned out my timing light is fine. Helps if the goof using it puts the clamp on no.1 the right way around. Saw that this AM. Went to hook it up and saw the arrow for direction on the plug wire clamp. Forgot about that.

I'm now sitting 21 degrees initial. Ran the rpm up in bits and recorded the timing. Wish I had a vac pump that would hold poundage so I could map the vac well, but I think this will surfice for now. Ended up being at 51.5 degrees at just under 2200. Does this sound okay? By the calcs I should be turning roughly 2500 at 55 mph and 3000 at 65 mph. By my estimate the timing should be all in by around 45-47mph. Good or do you think it can be set better?

Plugs are lean. Porcelain is gleaming white all the way down. Looking at the ground strap on the plug the colour change (although slight) seems to be hitting right around the apex which should be ideal timing. Once I get the jets and get them tuned in I'll recheck where I am to be sure. Could not tell on heat range really. Again, something I can watch once I get some fuel in it and see where I'm at.

Do not hear any detonation so with any luck I'm okay. Just got to cure the lean issue before driving it much more.

Fuel mileage is dissapointing at 16.91 mpg. Could anyone confirm my thinking or educate me on it in regard the jet. With the economy vac gauge in the car we seem to be in the throttle to keep the car going at a steady rate. What I wonder is if we get the jet off lean and where it is supposed to be (re adjust the carb as needed) that we should be able to cruise instead of applying the throttle as the power curve should be greater. Does that make sense?

Thanks again.

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From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

MoparBrit,

You have a good setup as far as timing. Sounds like you have it set like mine, for max economy and punch. You should be getting allot better than 16 mpg unless your always driving up hill, and on the power valve all the time? or.......

You got a hole in your gas tank?

or fuel line?

What is your elevation?

The mileage doesn't make sense. What are you using for fuel? and what grade?

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

I'd call this way too much. Try to get things configured so your initial (base) timing is between 5° and 10° BTDC, at normal kerb idle with vacuum advance disconnected and plugged.
What's the overall vehicle configuration, again? Year, model, transmission, rear axle ratio, tyre size? And have you checked to make sure your speedometer (more to the point, your odometer) reads correctly?

Come to think of it, fuel prices are high...got a locking petrol cap?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

A-Ted ..........We are at 5400 feet elevation wise. Using base grade from where ever is cheapest. For the fuel test we filled up in the AM both times at the same station. Seems like we are in the throttle all the time. Granted there are rolling hills around, but spends more time than not in the more gas use area of the economy gauge.

Did the cheapo route today and found I had another 55 jet. Found a .056 stiff wire and drilled it out. Measured the wire after and test fit it and it is a snug fit. Thought at least it would give me an indication of what might be what. The .056 should give me around what would be a 57 jet. Swapped the jet, warmed the car up and reset the mix and idle. We just took it out. Too hot to check a plug right at the moment. Will pull one later tonight or in the AM to see if any colour on the plugs now. I think the issue is we are in the power all the time.

Still, dissapointing to get 16.9.

Tanks fine, fuel line is new. Still getting gas smell after a hard run coming from the air cleaner snorkel. Tells me it is displacing into the manifold which is causing the hard start.

Dan............. See, I'm stuck on what to do. Sounds like the totals are coming out okay, but wondered on the initial. Then getting others saying it is okay. I worked it using the bump it up watching the vacuum and at this level I get the best vac. Unsure what to do now.

Car is a 1971 Dart Swinger, 225 with 904 auto. 1920 Holley on it. Only just driving it out since getting it. Rebuilt the carb with a kit from NAPA, checked everything on it for float etc. All set. Has the 1/4 spacer gasket under it. Plugs are Autolite 66 now gapped at 42 after doing the HEI conversion. Dizzy is a reman electronic. BWD brass contact cap and rotor. Bosch plug wires. Set the valves as per Haynes, engine is a reman unit that has been in two or three years or so. Oil is Mobil One 10/40 high mileage. Trans not burnt, new filter and fluid. Rear is an 8.25 with 3.21 gears. Rear tyres are 235/60/14's. Can't think of anything else off the top of my head. If you need another bit of info let me know.

Cap is a locking cap! Had the same thought on petrol cost and the old midnight petrol stations (read length of hose).

Cheers

_________________
From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

We are going to need to see someone come up with something a great deal more science-based, detailed and convincing than "Yeah, that's OK" before 21 degrees' initial advance becomes unproblematic. Something is definitely wrong with your setup if it takes anywhere near 21° base timing to get the totals you want.
Get rid of the Haynes manual, yesterday if not sooner. You need a factory service manual. In the meantime, see the valve adjustment procedure.
Checked your cam timing?
Original setup on this car would almost certainly have been a 2.76 rear axle and tyres of roughly 190/75R14 equivalent size. If the speedo drive pinion wasn't changed with the rear axle and rear tyre swap, your odometer will be off. Let's do some maths:

190/75R14 tyre diameter is 22.5"
235/60R14 tyre diameter is 25.1"

New tyres are 12% bigger diameter than original, means the driveshaft is 12% slower turning at any given vehicle speed.

New rear axle is 17% lower than original = 17% faster driveshaft rotation at any given vehicle speed.

Nett change is 5%. Assuming your odometer is otherwise properly calibrated, your 16.9 mpg becomes 17.7. Not great, but a little better.

I think you probably have some more work to do on your dizzy curve to get the base timing back into the reasonable range previously mentioned. My guess is that your mechanical advance is probably coming in too slowly.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Never heard of a 190/75 tire........

And your math is off

190/75 14 if it existed would be 25.22"

185/75 14 (most likely size) is 24.93"


You can fix the rest of your math.........

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

Dan..... Valve adjustment.....Well, I said Haynes manual, but after looking at your posted procedure I remember printing that and using that in combo to get them spot on. They were way off when we got the car. Don't remember what they were, but all were set to the same number.

The reman engine was put in by a previous owner. I've not been into it at all. Just doing the usual brakes, safety, tune type stuff to get it feeling comfortable for the wife to be driving it.

Yes, original set up for the rear was a 2.76. Swapped to the larger 8.25 rear and 3.21 set from a Scamp as was originally going to go the V8 route with the car. Liked how the slant ran and the realization of fuel price make the keeping the slant more viable. Apart from that it runs nicely and with some tweaking if I can get it into the 20's for average putting around and perhaps a bit higher on the highway then it rivals a lot of new cars out there for mpg.

When the swap was done, tyre and gear calcs were taken into account and the correct gear installed in the trans. If my estimates are correct the actual fuel mileage we got was probably more like 16.7 or so.

I'm going to have to sit down and look at my notes and map out where this dizzy is working on mechanical and vac and put it on graph paper. Always seems easier when I have something to look at. I really did not want to have to muck with pulling it again as was glad to just get it running after doing the HEI conversion, but may come down to that once I have it sussed.

_________________
From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

MoparBrit,
Some thoughts as a reference:

When I rebuilt my motor I picked up a new rebuilt distributor for a 1974 and the springs they put in it were so stiff that all I could get out of it was 10 degrees at 2500 rpm. So for about 6 months I ran 20 degrees of initial advance to get my 30 degree total. After recurving with Doc's help on how to find a long stiff long looped secondary spring I was able to split the difference, 16 degrees initial and 16 degrees mechanical by 2500 rpm. Mileage has remained constant with either set up 22.5 to 22.6 mpg. (with a #58 jet) for my driving style which is aggressive. That seems to provide a nice balance for torque and mileage.

When I drop down to 10 degrees initial advance the mileage drops to 20.5 mpg and the car feels lazy.
I fill up every two days and keep accurate records.

On the speedo gearing, my P235 60's are the same diameter as the stock tires. I believe it is a 29 tooth gear for the 2.76. For the 3.23 rear I was running I think I used a 32 or 34. I need to check my notes.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Hi Ted,

I put a 34 tooth gear in when I did the gear swap. Shows I should need a 33.53 gear by calc program. So, I estimated the speedo is actually showing about a mile faster at 60. Did a long test run timing mileage markers and came up right about spot on. I might be thinking backwards though which is common for me. Some one please jump in and correct me if I've got it wrong.

Just by a quick guess I estimated that on a long trip the overall mpg would probably be .20 to .33 lower than shown. Now this was a total guess with only rudimentary quick calc on it.

So, going to be just too hot out there for me to be able to do much on it today as they say it will be close to 100 F out. Health won't take that heat for very long so I'll wait until tomorrow to muck with it some more. I did check the plugs really quickly this AM after taking the spare jet out to .056 which by the charts shows it should be a no. 57 equivalent if I remember right (been up since 2 AM so things a bit foggier than usual).
Plugs show they are set a bit rich at idle, but insulators still show clean so at throttle I'm still a bit lean. Will have to break down and purchase some new jets to take it from here. Next size I have to take the existing jet out is 1/16 which equates to a jump to a 62 jet or something like that. Way up there either way.

As a note of interest. I did start taking the dizzy I got from the junk yard apart. It turns really slowly so had a definite seized type issue. The dizzy came out of a Duster with a 225. I wish I'd have kept up with the year. Had an 8.5 vac advance on it that still works fine. Pulled the breaker plate and it had 17 on the gov! Talk about an advance monster. 51 degrees at TDC if I looked at it right.

Springs in that one have a small red spring and a long looped grey larger spring.

Would love to get in the 22 to 24 or so range in general driving around here. One would hope that a little more might be squeeked out of the mpg on a highway trip.

_________________
From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

...and I never said there was any such a tire. Re-read what I wrote, please. The P-metric tire sizing system wasn't in use when the car in question was new.
Yup...transient dysgraphia had me type 22.5 rather than 25.2. Good catch. This means the present tires are essentially the same diameter as the originals, which means if the speedo & odo were accurate with the stock configuration and the speedo drive pinion wasn't changed when the 3.23s were installed, the speedo and odo are now reading 17% fast, which means calculated mileage is actually 17% optimistic

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

OK, then you don't get off as easily as finding an error in mileage calculation. It was worth a shot!
Reading the plugs is important, and a very useful diagnostic, but be careful not to load more-than-due accuracy or precision into what you're seeing. I'm not sure all of English-car spark plug reading lore has basis in fact or applies to engines that actually run correctly when configured and adjusted properly.
Really have to go by distributor number (or, failing that, by scrutiny and/or measurement); remember that the newest A-body Duster is 32 years old and likely no longer has its original distributor.
It'd be nice to have a breakout chart of spring characteristics by paint colour, but TTBOMK no such info exists accessibly.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Got THAT right Dan! Wish I had goofed up on the swap and forgot to do the gear. Either that or put in the totally wrong one! Would love to have that simple a fix even though I'd be kicking my self about it!

Hey, look on the bright side....at least I'm not running LUCAS plugs

With today's fuel it does make it a bit more difficult to use the plugs, but hopefully still giving me a bit of a note of where I am. Still way too lean though!

Can't find any numbers on the Duster dizzy. Only numbers are on the weights and the gov. Body has no tag or stamped in number. My guess is it could be a reman from a while back.

_________________
From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

Yeah, in the '60s they used to stamp the dizzy number into the housing. You could look at the housing and see if it was original (smooth die-cast/machined finish) or "remanufactured" (sandblasted all to hell and back), thus giving some reliable idea of what you were looking at. They switched in the early '70s to a number tag held to the dizzy with one screw. Carter carbs have the same system, with the same obvious problem

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.