OK guys; I know I've seen this covered here before; but a search with my painfully slow dial up would be akin to watching paint dry.
I just bought me a truck (OK you guys will hate me, its got 2 "extra" cylinders, and its dist. is atop the block, back by the firewall, about centered) But it is a Dodge. '83, D 250. I will probably be going after it next weekend; I took a chance and bought my 2nd veh. via Ebag. (1st one was strictly a parts car that I immediately stripped, upon getting it home) Once I get it here, I plan on changing all belts, hoses, and fluids, as soon as practical.
I know the newer (as in anything with OD, at least) trannys call for ATF+4. I can't go outside and look, (the truck's 335 miles away) but I would certainly think being a 3/4T, it would be a 727, vs a 904-998-999. I have used DexII for years, in my non OD Mopars. I know that would suffice but is it worth spending the extra on the +4 in this case? Any negatives (compatibility with the remaining Dex that remains in the converter, etc) When I did my 78 Fury trans service earlier this spring I put Dex II into that one and it's doing just fine (904 non L/U); so should I put +4 in this thing or DexII? I don't think +4 was even thought of yet, in '83.

ATF+4 is an extremely good fluid. ATF+3 is not a very good fluid. If you don't want to spend for ATF+4 (which, if I'm not mistaken, can now be had on the aftermarket for less than Mopar gets), then use a premium brand of Dexron. Congrats on the new truck. The 318s like the NGK ZFR5N spark plugs just as much as the pre-'75 slant-6s do!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

If it has over 100,000 miles on it and you suspect it,s never been changed,I,d leave it alone. Sediment collects in all the passages,and new fluid can dissolve and dislodge it all at once,causing problems. If you decide to change it anyway,use dex II,thats what the clutches were desinged for.

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V8?? We don't need no stink'n V8!!

Dexron II is no longer on the market — hasn't been for years — and leaving old fluid and a clogged filter in the transmission isn't such a hot idea unless you are trying to finish-off the transmission so you have an excuse to rebuild or replace it.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Yeah; as many years as Ive been working on cars, Ive heard the myth
that changing ATF on a higher mile tranny that has not had regular changes but in my experience that has been a load of crap; unless you pull the pan and IT'S already got a load of crap in it; (shavings, etc) in which case the overdue fluid change would not be what killed the tranny!
I didn't know that Dexron II was no longer made.
Being that I just got this truck (probably wont actually take possession til next weekend) and I certainly did not get it as a "flip job" to resell, I don't mind spending the extra on the +4; I don't get "flat rape" to work on my own vehicles, nor ever have to pay anywhere near "list" for parts so I tend to buy the better grade of whatever I have to replace on my vehicles; Cheap insurance against a "redo".
On my Fury, I noticed it shifting funny at the end of last year; I was getting worried that the governor was acting up; I did a fluid and filter change on it thie past spring when I got it out, and it has not missed a beat since. I have no idea on its tranny change history, in the 29 years between its leaving Hammtrack and my owning it.

On the plugs I was actually gonna ask you, Dan, which of their plugs a 318 would use; Ive had good luck over the years with RN 14YCs (I know you dont like that brand) but if theyre available locally I may try something different.

We're now at Dexron IV or V or possibly VI, I forget which.

NGK ZFR5N plugs.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Maybe you could mix old fluid and new fluid half and half and sneak up on it!

Well, Ross thats basically what's gonna happen anyways; the converter will still be full of fluid; so w/o a "flush", I won't get all the fluid out anyway.
Dan; I wasnt thinking of Dexron IV or V, even though I originally said Dex II the bottle still says Dexron on it. but whether its Dexron I, II, X, whatever were on, vs. ATF+4, dexron is backwards compatible with former versions of Dexron. but thanks for the clarification.

On the plugs; I don't want to start another Fram filter type flame war, but simply put, what makes the NGKs better than the ol' "stand-by"?
BTW; lately ive been seeing alot of sales on Purolator oil filters, so the last few Ive bought have not been orange. It aggravates me though, not yet remembering the part number vs the orange ones. I have not had to look up an oil filter in I cant say how long, til I bought the Purolators.

Being we are talking about fluids and lubrication, and this being a 25 year old flat tappet engine, I may start using Rotella in it, vs the Valvoline that I usually buy.

Oh, you're talking about that ATF.

http://www.thoseshirts.com/atf.html

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"When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it." - Pointy-haired Boss

1964 Valiant V200, 225/Pushbutton 904
BBD, CAI, HEI, LBP, AC, AM/FM/USB, EIEIO

Oil: Valvoline's fine. Yes, even with flat tappets.

Spark plugs: The truth is that any well-made plug of the correct characteristics will work fine. The controlling factor is how well the plug was made (materials and build quality), for that's what determines how closely the plug actually conforms to its specified behaviour, and for how long before failing.

When choosing what plugs to buy, it's best to go on practical experience. The best kind is your own practical experience (what plugs are available in your area that work well with your car), but a second preference is the practical experience of others with similar cars. Note, there is a difference between PRACTICAL experience and opinions/conspiracy theories.

Chrysler have been buying Champion spark plugs by the millions for many decades, and so has gotten very favorable pricing from the series of owners of the "Champion" brand over the years. That, and no other reason, is why most Mopars come with Champion plugs. Not because they're specially better, not because they were "designed and tested specifically for each other" or anything of the sort, just because that's the supplier Chrysler got the lowest price from. I've had generally poor (and worsening) results with Champions over the years. Two actual spark plug failures, one electrical and one physical, and generally just not being able to rely on them as a product line. Quality control is all over the map and growing worse, and they're very fond of "consolidating" plugs so that they have fewer plugs in the line. Every time a new owner buys the brand, you never know what you're going to get. Specific problems with current-production Champions include crudely-cut threads, which greatly increase the likelihood of cross-threading, thread pullout, spark knock, and other undesireable effects.

"Autolite" was a Ford brand name until the early 1970s when a legal dispute over the name resulted in the sale of the "Autolite" spark plug brand. There has been no affiliation between Ford and Autolite spark plugs for three decades. I had generally good results with Autolites over the years until production was recently moved to (guess where...?) China. They're now poorly-made trash.

"AC" is General Motors' spark plug brand. It stands for "Albert Champion" -- yep, the same guy who started "Champion". That's an interesting historical fact and nothing more; it doesn't mean ACs and Champions are just as good as each other (or just as bad as each other). I haven't used many AC plugs over the years.

Bosch make a lot of noise about being a high-precision German spark plug, and set their prices accordingly, but there've been real practical problems with their platinum plugs over the years, their "Platinum Plus 2" and "Platinum Plus 4" plugs are a marketing scam, and their "Super" (regular) plugs are all now manufactured in China. There have been some Bosch plugs over the years that I've really wanted to like because they looked/sounded neat. No more, I'm done wasting my money.

NGKs have worked well for me every single time I've tried them. And they're very obviously well made out of high-quality materials. The threads are precisely rolled rather than crudely cut. The plating is good enough to last until the plug's used up, not just until you get them out of the box. The gaskets are a much more robust design than you get on a Champion or Autolite plug. The electrodes are aligned, not bent, when you get them. On and on.

So that's regarding plug brand. As for which
type of spark plug to use: My favorite "problem solver" is the special spark plug originally designed for AMC and Chrysler in the late '70s when they were trying to make engines run reliably with extremely lean and stratified charges. This is Autolite 985 or Champion RN13LYC or NGK ZFR5N. It is of the same heat range and physical characteristics as the ordinary Autolite 56/66 or Champion N12Y/N14Y plug, but its electrodes are twice as long. This puts the spark point a lot closer to the center of the combustion chamber and moves it away from quench-prone chamber walls, which in turn results in more complete combustion, which gives an improvement in starting, idling, driveability, and economy. The mixture is much less variable in the middle of the chamber than at the edges, and these long-electrode plugs give more consistent light-off of the cylinder under borderline-combustibility conditions. A similar electrode set is used in many late-model Chrysler engines. I use them with good results in my pre-'75 slant-6s, my 2.2 and 2.5 front-drivers, my 318...

Here's the business end of an NGK ZFR5N:


And here's the ordinary NGK GR5 (equivalent of RN14Y):

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks again Dan. Yeah you're right; about actual hands on experience with a product vs "claimed" benefits; I never "bought" the split fire or Delco's Rapid fire BS. I have had nothing but bad luck with ANY Bosch spark plug. (I cant tell you, HOW many I pulled out of customers' cars and put in Autolite (no more of them, though any more) Champions or ACs depending on brand of car, and had a huge improvement. That said, a nice clean new plug, gapped right, sharp 'trode edges, not burnt away will always out perform a worn out plug. (thats where Split fire was able to claim what they did because they never replaced a new set of plugs; all replaced, were worn out) but as you said, personal experience told me over the years that I've had mostly good luck with Champions, (I've had a couple bum ones; but as many as I've used, that is not enuf to cause me to swap brands by itself) and i've NEVER put a set ofAC's in a Mopar and NOT gotten radio noise as a result; ive tried a couple times when places were "out" of Champions and always had to do it twice) but being a "new to me" truck I'm thinking of trying the NGKs in this one.

Whats the difference between the 2 NGKs that you mention? it appears that the one that you equate to the Champions, has the "U groove" and the other not, from the picture I see.

I have a couple sets of "RBL 16Y's" here, made before going to the "RV" series that replaced them. one set may be a 12 heat range, havent pulled them out recently off the shelf.

Both of the NGK plugs pictured have the V-groove centre electrode. The difference is electrode length, as described in detail in the post you responded to!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I'd put the Dexron in first to get rid of (half) of the old fluid.

Then see if a transmission rebuild is in your future.

If the transmission is good, I'd then goto the ATF+4 after a shorter than normal fluid change interval.

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

Agreed,
Changing the fluid didn't kill the tranny, just the net effect was the same.

I won a '74 Nova in a card game years ago....an inline 6 naturally.

I took possession and was enjoying driving it so much I thought I would go crazy and clean it up, change the tranny fluid, etc.

So I did. What came out was like molasses, nearly and was so dark it looked like burnt oil. Which it was, of course from slipping inside the tranny, the post mortem showed.

New fluid and filter on, never moved a foot again without hand pushing around the yard til a new tranny went in. No telling how long it mighta run if I'd left it alone.

rock
'64d100
l

Went to useless zone last nite to pick their computer app guide's "brain"; among other things their computer showed ATF+4 for this app. Not dexron. huh. And nobody had those ZFR plugs on hand; so i actually ordered a set today, I'll try em. ($1.99/plug, only $.10 ea. more than the std RN14Y Champs; the last couple sets, actually I bought either the "truck plugs" (the "cool looking" black ones;) and I have a set of the Champion platinums as spares for my cherokee (and for some reason that engine ('01 4.0 straight-6) calls for different plugs compared to my 97 Wrangler (97 4.0 straight 6)) I wonder if thats because of my conventional looking distributor type ignition on the 97 vs the ciol pack, coil on plug of the 01? (or if I could actually interchange the 2 applications) Question for another day; OK; wife is off (so that means the Cherokee's home) gotta "hit it"; oil change and once over for the nearly 6 hour ride to Wausau.