I think I'm down to checking the mechanicals. I'll yank the plugs and the valve cover to verify that the valves are moving. I'll also check the timing chain for slack.

The worst part of this whole thing is that it ran. I drove it home. And from there it has gone down hill. Two months ago it would start and at least run if you peddled the throttle. It ran like it was missing a cylinder but it ran. It had no power but it ran. I'm not a novice mechanic, I've been fixing cars a LONG time but this one is crushing my soul.

I don't know it it will help, but here are some small notes:

Check that the vacuum line to the distributor is taken off the correct port on the carburetor. Easy to test: Take off the hose at the dizzy and plug it. Start the engine (if it is in the mood). There should be no vacuum to the distributor at idle, more vacuum when you open the throttle (ported vacuum). If there is great suction in the hose at idle, it is incorrectly hooked up to manifold vacuum.

Check your compression - it may be too low to build proper pressure for starting, but it should run after firing up.

If you rebuilt a BBD, did you use the correct thick gasket under the carb? The carbs after '77 have notches in the gasket for vacuum supply to the vacuum kick and heated air system. That will definetely give problems as long as the engine is cold, and it cannot go off choke properly.

Try another set of plug wires(don't bother about lengths and such), or change them (magnecore).

Olaf

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Aspenized

Oh, and please tell where you start the line for all us other guys who tinkered with cars and angines all our lives and never make any bloobers 'cause we know 'everything' there is to know about almost anything!

It is usually one of those small, basic things...

Olaf

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Aspenized

Line forms to the left. Cookies and punch will be served after the meeting. Make sure to drink the punch, ALL of the punch...

Thanks for the tips, you are probably right and it is something small I am missing. I may be overthinking the problem.

After I verify the valvetrain is moving correctly I'll do a compression check.

It occurred to me that I doubt the previous owner ever adjusted the valves. When I pull the valve cover to verify that all the valve are moving I will check the valve lash. I know it won't be correct cold but I have to start somewhere. Too tight or too loose should be pretty obvious.

Placement of the distributor vacuum line isn't going to prevent the engine starting no matter where it is connected (or disconnected), though of course it's always well to check that everything's where it's supposed to be. The suggestion to verify correct carb gasket is a good one, though here again, even if the wrong gasket were totally blocking vacuum to the choke pull-off, the engine would fire and sputter, then die -- not refuse to start. Improper valve lash, even grossly improper valve lash, will not prevent the engine at least firing and popping (and it would have to be way too tight to prevent the engine starting and running). Compression would have to be so low that the starter would just spin the engine without the cylinder-by-cylinder "chop-chop-chop" sound, to prevent the engine running. Good idea to check the spark plug wires, but it is highly unlikely all of them would be in such bad condition that the engine won't run. Focus first on the coil-to-distributor wire.

The fact that you're getting not a single pop or poof suggests either the spark isn't reaching the cylinders or it is badly out of time regardless of what is indicated -- and the fact that the distributor was right up against the end of its (primary) adjustment slot should draw our attention to that area. Next step: pull the spark plugs, rotate the engine by hand until the frontmost piston is at TDC. Use a straightened-out length of wire coat hanger inserted in the spark plug hole as an indicator. Since you're planning to pull the valve cover anyhow, watch the front two rocker arms to make sure they're both relaxed, indicating you're on the correct TDC (between the compression and power strokes, not the TDC between exhaust and intake). Then go look at the crank pulley and see where the timing mark is. If it's not in the very close vicinity of the 0° (TDC) mark on the indicator, make a new mark. Then put the plugs back in, hook everything back up and see if it starts.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I've actually run into a situation with an old tractor engine in the past where the fuel mixture was so rich that it caused the plugs to fail. Don't ask me how this could happen, but it did. I couldn't get them to spark for anything. I replaced the plugs, and it fired right up.

Thought about this a little more over the course of the day's drive. Dan is right: ether and spark should cause something, anything to happen. Is it totally outside the realm of the possible that you can see the spark but it's not hot enough to light off the mixture? I think you verfied this, but is it possible the spark is 180 or 360 degrees out? This is dumb, but can we verify that the rotor is right for the cap? Could the drive gear on the distributor not be making contact with the cam somehow, or slipping or jumping teeth? Could the plugs be fouled?

Just thinking out loud.

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1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)

The other day I replaced my points, rotor and distributor cap. I thought I was being careful as I moved plug wires from one cap to the other.

Went to start it up....it would turn over, but no ignition. I checked to see that I was getting fuel....yep....checked to see if I was getting spark....nope.

So, by then I had lost confidence in whether or not my plug wires were in the right spot, so I rotated the engine to TDC, and saw that the rotor was roughly in the 4 oclock position. I placed wire number one there, then the rest in order.

Went to start it again....just barely hit the starter, and VROOOM.

My plug wires were so far off, it seemed like a drunk monkey had plugged them in the configuration they were in. Not only was number one not in the right position but they weren't in the correct firing sequence either. Sheesh!! I stood there thinking, "how in the sam hill did I do that"

Anyway...that's one of the reasons why I bought this car. I like the fact that I can go down a short list of things to diagnose most problems and, once diagnosed, I can typically fix them with simple tools.

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1954 Ford, Tudor Mainline
1976 Plymouth Valiant, 4 door


www.automotive-ninja.com

If the spark (or anything else that goes in a circle) is 360° out, it's…in.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Well you know what they say, "what's out is in again". Good thing I held on to all my hair metal wardrobe.

I should have said 360 of crank rotation out, which would be 180 at the distributor. Of course, I also said 180 degrees out, which would be 90 at the distributor and pretty hard to miss. I was a little groggy when I wrote that.

_________________
1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)

You did bring up a point. Dan has pointed out before that some of the distributor caps are junk, as are the rotors. I have pulled and cleaned the plugs once but that was a few weeks ago. I pulled off the washers and gapped the plugs at 0.35". I'm thinking it would be a good idea to just go ahead and put in new plugs, wires, cap and rotor (per the parts list on the Tune-Up thread).

I have taken the coil wire off the distributor cap several times to watch the spark as I turn it over. The spark does not appear to be "rhythmic" if that makes sense. It will go "spark, spark, spark, spark,...,spark, spark, spark, spark, spark,...,spark".

I've gone of over my HEI swap several times. I have swapped the leads from the pickup coil to the HEI module several times with no difference.

I've really been trying to avoid pulling out the distributor (thanks to the tricky reinstallation) but I need to verify the condition of the drive gear and replace the pickup coil (the wiring is old and crusty).

Alright, this Saturday morning I'm giving it another go.

I'm going to yank the valve cover and check for timing chain stretch/jump. I will also verify the timing marks on the dampner and verify TDC is correct.

I am then going to check the valve lash (cold unfortunately, since it doesn't run).

If the timing chain checks out and the valvetrain specs out I will pull the distributor and verify the distributor drive gear. After that I am going to replace the distributor pickup due to the wiring being cracked.

That will be followed with a tuneup (plugs, wires, cap, rotor).

Once all THAT is done I'll try to crank it again (on ether only).

If it fires up on ether (or at least coughs) I will plumb the fuel line from the pump-to-tank into a gas can and see what happens.

I will report back on Monday.

It runs again!

Timing chain is fine. Timing marks and damper are correct.

Valve lash is fine.

Yanked the distributor and replaced the pickup coil. I noticed some metal shavings on the pickup coil magnet. I think the reluctor wheel must have contacted the sensor at some point. I installed the new pickup coil and set the air gap (that took a while to get perfect).

When I went to drop the distributor back in I just didn't like the position it had been in before I puled it out. At TDC the rotor was pointed more at a 5 o-clock position. I backed it up a notch and it dropped in the 4 o-clock spot like it should have been before. I backed off the bottom distributor bolt to allow for extra adjustment and set the timing at TDC. It fired right up and purred like a kitten!

Then it died a few minutes later. I think I have a separate fuel issue. Time to drop/clean the tank, new fuel filter and maybe new rubber lines.

A few notes:
I replaced the cap/rotor/plugs. I used AutoLite 985 plugs since I did the HEI conversion earlier, gapped at 0.35".

Setting the air gap on the pickup coil took a while to get right but I can see where it would be a very important adjustment.

To get at the bottom distributor bolt I found a trick. Loosen the top distributor bolt until it has just a thread or two in the block, then pull up on the distributor like you were removing it. The bolt will limit the travel, while you can use a stubby ratcheting wrench to get at the bottom bolt. It is tight but worked great.

Wacky. It occurs to me that something wrong with the distributor pickup might show okay on your timing light but not actually be strong enough to fire the plugs. Maybe more likely is that #1 was okay, firing the timing light okay, but the other parts or the pickup were screwy for the other cylinders. Don't know for sure, but it looks like you've solved it.

The stalling has the reek of an air-in-fuel problem, or maybe a float problem. Slant Six Dan is correct with his safety concerns about glass or plastic fuel filters in a wreck, but it sure is handy to be able to SEE that your fuel is actually making to the carb and that it's not foam or aerated. In my limited experience with diesels, that one bit me a few times. Rotted fuel lines would allow air bubbles to be sucked in, but they wouldn't leak fuel out. Frustrating stuff.

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1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)

Welp, seems that we are back in business.

I dropped the fuel tank and found a cracked rubber hose. The tank had been replaced back in '90 per the shipping label I found on the tank. I replaced the rubber line, rinsed the tank and put it back in. Probably explains the whole dying problem I had.

Next I tried to finalize the wiring on my HEI ignition swap (soldering, wire tying, looming). After installing my power relay it would not start again. Finally traced the problem back to the BRAND NEW power relay! I took it apart and it was fried! Some shiny happy person returned a $4 relay after frying it. So I bought another relay and all is right with the world.

Next is the timing. I have NO idea where the timing is currently set. It isn't for lack of trying. Per the timing instructions, the mark is currently around 10 ATDC at idle. When I put it at 6 BTDC it ran like crap and wouldn't even accelerate. Put it back at 10 ATDC and it runs like a champ. Pulls hard across the power band. Go figure.

Little problems to fix next:
The choke stove seems to be incorrect for the carb setup. It won't come off after the car warms up. I might just go with a manual choke setup. Right now the choke is disconnected.

The blower motor blows constantly as soon as you turn on the car. The heater controls don't do anything to change the fan speed.

The A/C needs to be refilled with R134.

The air cleaner is a "fire starter" Edelbrock foam/wire triangle element. Need to find a low profile alternative.

Seems to need shocks. I'll do that after I lower it (2" blocks in the back, turned down torsion bars in the front with 1/4" rubber bump stops).