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hellion_locdogg
 Post subject: Locked out timing?
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:41 pm 
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Anyone running locked out timing and if so how much?

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slantzilla
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Mine is pretty much locked out. 27* w/no vaccuum.

This is on a race car. Locked timing is not really a good thing on the street. :shock:

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hellion_locdogg
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:20 pm 
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Well mine only wants to run/idle at 34*+ locked and not diesel when shut off, AFR reads 12 on heavy accel, 13 on light accel and a touch over 14 at cruise. I was at 8* initial with 24* mech(factory Mallory setting) and no vac. It ran good but idled like crap and fell on it's face from idle and had NO torque. I put it at 30* locked out as a test and went up from there and even at 34* could probably use 2* more. It now idles smooth and doesn't cough and miss after driving on the freeway and best of all doesn't deisel. I was reading other inline boards and guys saying they were as high as 38* locked out on a street driven car. And before its asked, yes cam was degreed to Clifford specs and was straight up as the claimed.

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Joshie225
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:32 pm 
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And before its asked, yes cam was degreed to Clifford specs and was straight up as the claimed.
That's at least 1/2 your problem.

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hellion_locdogg
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:38 pm 
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So your saying I'm 24*+ off ?

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805moparkid
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:31 pm 
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Well mine only wants to run/idle at 34*+ locked and not diesel when shut off, AFR reads 12 on heavy accel, 13 on light accel and a touch over 14 at cruise. I was at 8* initial with 24* mech(factory Mallory setting) and no vac. It ran good but idled like crap and fell on it's face from idle and had NO torque. I put it at 30* locked out as a test and went up from there and even at 34* could probably use 2* more. It now idles smooth and doesn't cough and miss after driving on the freeway and best of all doesn't deisel. I was reading other inline boards and guys saying they were as high as 38* locked out on a street driven car. And before its asked, yes cam was degreed to Clifford specs and was straight up as the claimed.
what did you degree the intake center line to? what is the LSA @??

right now mine is at 32 locked cuz it does the same as yours... im going to the track saturday to see what it wants... TNT @ Speedworld on Saturday @ 6pm

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Joshie225
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:04 pm 
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Can you post your camshaft specifications, installed intake centerline and static compression ratio? If these three things are correct or close enough you should find 28-30° total timing to provide best power. Initial timing with a performance cam varies, but is usually 12-16° BTDC. Also, was the damper verified to indicate true TDC?

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hellion_locdogg
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:19 pm 
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http://users.hal-pc.org/~bwhitejr/Slant_Six_Cams.pdf

Everything verified same as above( #11 Clifford 95-1152) also as per cam card, lobe sep 110. Static is 9.3:1. Yes damper is true TDC spun both directions. .016 int .018 exh

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Joshie225
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:48 pm 
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If that was installed on 110° intake centerline that is why it's lazy and needs a lot of timing.

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hellion_locdogg
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:08 pm 
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So should I leave it there or degree it with an offset to a lower intake centerline? Like I said it still feels like it wants more, and won't even miss till about 38* in gear.

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Joshie225
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:25 am 
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I would advance the cam 8° (4° at the cam) to a 102° intake centerline. The late intake closing point of 110° ATDC is allowing part of the intake charge to be pushed back out of the cylinder at low engine speeds. This means less air and fuel to burn and a lower dynamic compression ratio. This means less torque/HP. Once the cam timing is changed you should find 12-14° initial ignition timing and 28-30° total timing to work best.

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805moparkid
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:33 am 
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I would advance the cam 8° (4° at the cam) to a 102° intake centerline. The late intake closing point of 110° ATDC is allowing part of the intake charge to be pushed back out of the cylinder at low engine speeds. This means less air and fuel to burn and a lower dynamic compression ratio. This means less torque/HP. Once the cam timing is changed you should find 12-14° initial ignition timing and 28-30° total timing to work best.
bingo... 102 is perfect...

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hellion_locdogg
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:58 pm 
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[quote="Joshua Skinner"]I would advance the cam 8° (4° at the cam) to a 102° intake centerline. quote]

In short building cylinder pressure earlier right? I don't see an 8* crank key so I'm guessing the 4* cam bushing is my only option? I obviously don't know enough about cam timing, I just installed as per cam card instrucions and verified Cliffords numbers. :roll:

Thanks for your patience Josh.

,Cliff

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Joshie225
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Yes, a 4° cam bushing should fix you up if the current intake centerline is 110°. Just don't put it in backwards! :D

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805moparkid
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:38 pm 
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Yes, a 4° cam bushing should fix you up if the current intake centerline is 110°. Just don't put it in backwards! :D
or get an adjustable timing chain...

what did you put in it for a timing chain?? i ended up getting a JP cuz the autozone double row wore out in 6k miles...

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