This thread is related to the two most recent posts Lou and I made in the KPA conversion thread.

There are two major challenges I face, but the biggest is understanding and using fundamental IT protocols, and basic digital interfaces. I don't know how to go on the internet and download firmware, and or tuning programs, etc.. I do not know how to manage the files within it. I do not know whats it means to start a project, or how this terminology effects what I do within the program. A 12 year old who knows his way around a PC or smart phone is light years ahead of me. The most impressive thing I can do is save phone numbers to memory on my cell phone. Really! I am that challenged.

This is not limited to Mega Squirt, of course, but is at the heart of the challenges I face with it. When I try, there is almost always a dialogue box that pops up and asks me a question I simply do not understand the ramifications of. So I either take a chance on making some potentially fatal error or bail. It comes from not knowing enough about how all this stuff works, and what the vocabulary means.

The second challenge is the many variations of Mega Squirt, coupled with the fact that my memory is getting "full up" from a life time of learning facts. I simply do not retain things like I used to. This is a fact I have not developed adequate coping mechanisms for, (such as carrying a small note book and pencil with me). So as I read the Manual I forget where I have read what, and also which version of board and firmware I have. And then I am not sure if the text I am looking at is relevant to my set up.

By comparison, the tuning and hardware are the simple stuff.

I thought this might generate some useful discussion.

Sam

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Seems this one kind of left folks with nothing to say.

Sam

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:shrug:

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

I get it. This is kind of back ground info I suppose. It will add perspective to all my other comments and questions. But, if there is any advice about getting tech savvy that would be helpful.

Sam

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Well, the only way I've found to wrap my head around something new is to "use" the new stuff- or try to. Lots of my "trying" to use/understand something takes the form of using the google search engine. I type in "how do i do X-Y-Z" & start reading about it.

I use a big notebook (old school written notes for me) & take lots of notes. If I don't understand a particular point, stop & research that 1 thing until I do. I ask explicit questions on relevant forums in plain "I don't know the jargon" language. I try things out & sometimes make mistakes. But I don't give up.

You have to practice something again & again (both pratical hands-on use as well as discussion) in order to become comfortable & proficient with it.

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63 Valiant Wagon
225 - 4 bbl

Thanks. I do appreciate that feedback and the encouragement. I used to think I was a pretty smart guy. But I am a digital immigrant for sure, while the 12 years old kids are native born.

I guess I should stick my head in a basic IT for dummies text of some kind. Fear of mistakes is probably a major mental block for me.

Sam

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I have to get to work so I'll formulate a bit more complete reply in a little while but I do want to talk about this.

-George

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It's a Slant thing. Even I don't understand.

1974 Duster, EFI /6 soon to be turbo...

Get that Monkay! Get that nasty thing!!

Mistakes are (an important) part of the learning process. You can try to minmize the negative fallout - both safety wise & money wise. But you'll try things & sometimes it won't work like you thought it would.

For every "new" project I've completed, it has a pile of parts & materials that were in the end - broken, incorrect, or unuseable for what I was trying to do. It's just part of the price of admission.

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63 Valiant Wagon
225 - 4 bbl

It's like learning a language or anything else, if you grew up with it and started when you were young it comes much easier. Sorry, I'm not trying to sound like a young whippersnapper but it is what it is.

Don't expect to become a pro after one or two iterations. It takes 10s if not 100s... And don't expect to read a single book and find all the answers. That will only lead to more frustration. It takes experience... no more, no less. I also agree on that price of admission bit - It may have taken hundreds of $ to get a $10 part right but there is nothing like saying "Damn that works good..." in the end once it does happen.

Hats off to you for persistence Sam!

Disclaimer: with all due respect to everyone. No assumption is made either to anyone's intelligence or lack thereof.

With respect to the Megasquirt sytem, assuming the goal is a properly tuned and running engine. I think there are five levels of complexity inherent in the system:

- Low-level hardware which I consider the circuit design of the controller. Not the soldering-in of the components but the design;

- Low-level software which I consider to be the firmware of the microcontroller on the MS circuit board;

- High-level software which is the tuning software used, most often these days being Tuner Studio;

- High-level hardware, which I consider to be the external wiring and sensors and their interfaces to the controller board;

- And finally, the overall theory of operation of a internal combustion engine and its control.

When approaching the MS system, I try to be concerned with only two of the five, the high-level software and the high-level hardware. I only grudgingly and slowly learn a third, the theory of operation, as it becomes necessary. That may sound strange but I'll try to explain...

It's enjoyable to me to solder a MS system board together. There's no real brain work involved; just follow instructions. By the time I am doing that I have already figured out how I will trigger it (VR, Hall, coil, etc) so those decisions make themselves.

The wiring is very straighforward. The MS system is cleverly designed to read common sensors with build-in interfaces. Most of the sensors are resistors. Temperature, throttle position, and even MAP are simply resistors. The exception is O2. It is very simple to wire a resistor.

I thought injectors themselves were complicated. They are not. I realized this when the MS documentation said to use a 12v light bulb as a substitute for an injector for testing. They are just 12v solenoids. I don't even think they care about polarity. They still work.

During my first MS build I didn't know all this - I was thoroughly bamfoozled by complexity. In a situation like that I want a step by step guide to do everything. Of course there isn't one for MS. Once I figured out the paragraphs above, things got easier.

The tuning software can be obscure. I appreciated Eric's efforts on Megatune, and I think Tuner Studio is brilliant. Using the software is not difficult. Knowing what to set where - now, that's the trick.

Here's where it gets hard for me, and it's the theory part. So many settings. How many ignition events do I want before it shuts off the after-start enrichment? How the hell am I supposed to know? What about that accel enrichment curve? Can you say 'cut and try'? I'll bet there are a dozen or more settings that I have no idea what the right value is.

That's OK if the object is to tinker. Nothing I have ever tried invites tinkering like DIY EFI. You can tinker from now on. Which is not particularly appealing if all you want is an engine that runs like you would like. I think the appeal of the more expensive commercial solutions like the FAST system is the promise of a bolt-on turn-key solution, which in my opinion is optimistic.

So I usually end up with an engine that runs well enough. Could it run better? Yes, probably. Mine end up at the intersection of my capacity for tinkering and my desire to drive it. Sometimes I come back a month or two later and do something else when I have renewed energy.

I leave the low-level hardware and software alone. I don't have the knowledge to mess with the hardware, and though I was a computer science major, I do not want to mess around with the code. It works well enough. I feel if I do a good enough job hooking the high level stuff up, then its a matter of getting better at understanding how the theory works and how to use the existing tools to tune it. I am confident that the existing hardware and software are up to the task.

One thing that really helped me understand interfaces, and was really fun, not to mention cool, was messing around with a little thing called an Arduino. It's a microcontroller that is very accessible, massively supported on the web, and works really well. Working with that will sharply increase one's understanding of controller interfaces and how these things work. You can buy them for about $20 on Amazon and the software is free. I was able to do, in a matter of minutes, with an Arduino, what I had wished for years I could do with a PC interface. I recommend this to anyone wishing to experiment with interfaces.

Oh, and P.S., I have Matt's book. It is a great book, the best I have seen on the topic. Highly recommended.

-George

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It's a Slant thing. Even I don't understand.

1974 Duster, EFI /6 soon to be turbo...

Get that Monkay! Get that nasty thing!!