Hey All,
Saturday Morning Update:

Here are the JPGs of Lorrie's Distributor and the See-Through/Cut-Away Distributor Cap:

This first JPG is of the innards of the Distributor. The Rub Block is precisely on the peak of the Number One Cylinder's Distributor Cam Lobe. The Points are open .020". The Engine is at Cylinder Number One's TDC:



This next JPG is looking down through the top of the See-Through/Cut-Away Distributor Cap. Again, the Rub Block is precisely on the Peak of the Number One Cylinder's Distributor Cam Lobe. The Points are open .020". The Engine is at Cylinder Number One's TDC:



Notice that the Rotor's trailing edge is all but TOTALLY past the Distributor's Number One Spark Plug Contact Terminal. This setting is TERRIBLY retarded. The Rotor should be exactly in this position on the OTHER side of the Distributor's Number One Spark Plug Contact Terminal.

Don't know HOW this happened.

Have thought that it might be because of the Cam/Distributor Gear interstice.

Have thought that it might be because of the Timing Chain having either stretched or jumped a cog, but can't see how THAT would have happened.

Nonetheless, this is how Lorrie is at the immediate present.

QUESTION: Would it be a wise move at this point to loosen the Bolt holding Lorrie's Distributor in place and rotate it CLOCKWISE till the Number One Cylinder's Spark Plug Contact Terminal is on the other side of the Rotor Contact Point?

This last JPG is of one of Lorrie's NGK ZFR5N Spark Plugs.



The next thing is to clean all six of Lorrie's Spark Plugs and reset the Gap. Then am going to turn the Idle Screw in a half a turn and take it from there.

Thanks in advance for all welcome comments.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

No, don't rotate the housing, as that would mess up your timing.
Also, when the advance start working, it will be closer to the post, than it is now.
It has to be on one side (but not too much obviously) to allow it to stay in the right area when the advance mechanism(s) do their things.
If you really want to align the cap to the rotor, I think it would be better to modify the little tab that locate the cap, IIrc, it is in the same part that has the "hook" that hold the cap on.

_________________
I have no idea what I am talking about.

Hey Mr. RC,
Was thinking that the timing was already messed up. Was thinking that advancing the timing might be what Lorrie needs to start and run.
Thought of THAT too. That's why I haven't done anything to the Distributor. Didn't want to do something and mess it up.
Can see what you mean.
Know what you mean. But no, am not going to modify the cap.

So if the timing is NOT retarded, and the Bendix Stromberg Carburetor is putting out too much fuel instead of not enough fuel, then where do we go from here?

Have cleaned the Spark Plugs.
Have cleaned the Carburetor.
Have replaced the Ignition Coil, the Ignition Coil to Distributor Wire, the Condenser, the Points, the Distributor Cap, and the Distributor Rotor.

There is nothing more to replace.

The last time that all that was together, Lorrie still wouldn't start and run.

Am at the end of the rope. Should I just tie a knot, and hang on?

Am going to go back over the ENTIRE system yet once again. There has to be something that isn't right, and when it is found everything will straighten up.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

I think you should check ignition timing, if you have any doubt about it.
I don't want you to modify your cap, but if you want to get the rotor to point somewhere else than it does, you move the clamp-hook thingies on the distributor body.
But I doubt you would need to do that.

I have had slants start with ignition timing WAY off (16degrees AFTER tdc) but I think that setting it right is the first step, before doing anything else.

I guess that (in a "van") you could reach the starter button, and the distributor at the same time?
Just push the button, and play with the distributor timing, and see if it makes any poofs, or bangs (or starts)

_________________
I have no idea what I am talking about.

Hey Mr. RC,
That's what I've been doing.
Right.
The Dodge Manual that is here says that Lorrie's Number One Spark Plug should fire when Lorrie's Number One Piston is at TDC. But the Gurus here say five degrees BTDC.
Yes.
That's what was being questioned. Should the the Bolt that holds the Distributor in place be loosened, and the Distributor Body turned clockwise to advance the timing to see if THAT might induce Lorrie to start and run?

The way it sits right now, have had two people tell me that the timing looks alright.

But STILL, Lorrie's Engine won't start and run.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

When the rubing block on the points is at the highest, that is where the points are open the max. If you put a test light on the points the rotor will be much closer to the tower position as the points just open.

Richard

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Yes The fire BEGINS when the points FIRST start to open which will be WAY before the points get to the 'top' of the peak. I would say by looking that the timing is ok...

JC the only thing you HAVE NOT replaced is the spark plugs, that being said I would just replace them and try that. I have had issues in the past with this kind of problem although it wasnt a vehicle... It was my riding mower... it had fouled/flooded the plug, and no mater how clean i cleaned the plug it still would not run. Put in a new plug and it fired right off...

_________________
MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Hey Richard,
Alright. Have finally come to THAT realization.

Am now thinking that the Distributor is NOT grounded.

Am going to be going over Lorrie's Ignition System with a Test Light this morning.

Thunderstorm came over last evening, so it's nice and cool here today.

Am just going to take the time to check EVERYTHING with a Test Light. Up till now, everything has been being tested with a Multi-Meter.

Depending on whether Lorrie will start and run today, there are a couple of OTHER things that are being questioned, but will save that discussion till AFTER today's check out.

Thanks for the comment.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Dusty,
Alright.
No, no, no... The NGK ZFR5Ns gapped to .035 were installed just a short while ago at SSD's behest. They are installed without the Washers.
They come in boxes of four. Got two boxes. Have two of them left over. Will have to get another box of them from NAPA. Will do that on Monday. They will be here on Monday evening. Will install them on Tuesday morning if what is done today doesn't get Lorrie up and running. But have a feeling that we're going to find what it wrong today when the Ignition System is given a diagnostic with a Test Light.
Well you see? There you go. We may have finally found the REAL problem.

As was mentioned to Richard, a thunderstorm came over last evening and really cooled everything off. It got so cool here last night that had to sleep under a cover.

Anyway, will let you all know what is found with the Test Light.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All, and especially Mr. M427S,
Sunday Morning Update:

[Note: the quotes are questions from Mr. M427S who graciously asked a number of questions in an effort to diagnose the present Lorrie problem]

Got out the Test Light. Hooked the Battery Cable connected to the A727 Torqueflite Transmission, and to the Engine with a Bolt, to the Negative Pole of the Battery.

Hooked the Alligator Clip of the Test Light to the Bolt in the Battery Cable connected to the Negative Pole of the Battery. Touched the Positive Pole of the Battery with the Probe. Got a BRIGHT light. BTW the Battery has 12.07 Volts.

Touched the Bolt on the Starter to which the Battery Cable FROM the Positive Pole of the Battery is connected. Got a BRIGHT light.

Hooked the Alligator Clip to one of the Intake/Exhaust Manifold Studs and touched the Probe to the Starter Bolt. Got a BRIGHT Light.

With the Alligator Clip still connected to the Intake/Exhaust Manifold Stud, touched the Probe to the IN Terminal of the Fuse Panel. Got a BRIGHT Light.

Touched the Probe to the OUT Terminal of the Fuse Panel. Got a BRIGHT Light.

Touched the Probe to each of the OUT Terminals of the Fuses on the Fuse Panel. Got BRIGHT Lights on each of them.

Pulled the Wire to the "IGN" Terminal of the Alternator Regulator, and with the RUN Switch ON, touched the Fitting on that Wire. Got a BRIGHT Light.

Touched the IN Terminal of the Ballast Resistor with the RUN Switch ON. Got a BRIGHT Light.

Touched the OUT Terminal of the Ballast Resistor with the Run Switch ON. Got a BRIGHT Light.
With the Alligator Clip still connected to the Intake/Exhaust Manifold Stud, turned on the RUN Switch. Touched the Probe to the "+" Terminal of the Ignition Coil. Got a BRIGHT Light.
With the Alligator Clip still connected to the Intake/Exhaust Manifold Stud, touched the Probe to the Wire FROM the "-" Terminal of the Ignition Coil, and activated the START Switch. Got a BRIGHT FLASHING Light.
There IS a FLASHING Light on the Negative Side. And YES, the Rotor IS Turning.
Alright.
Yes.
No.
No. There is none shown in any of the four illustrations of the Distributor.
That location is quite secure.
Yes.
All of this was done, and EVERYTHING is EXACTLY as it should be.

Although the NKG ZFR5N Plugs are less than a month old, am going to get a whole NEW Set tomorrow evening. Will carefully set the Gap at 0.035, and install them WITHOUT the Washers per the Manual Instructions.

Hate to sound like some kind of a nut, but it may be that there is some other problem, like maybe the Flexible Brake Hoses on the Front Brake Assemblies, or the Flexible Hose that is connected to the Rear Axle Brake Lines are about to fail, and Lorrie KNOWS this, and she is refusing to start in order to protect ME, herself and everyone else out there from a catastrophe.

Kind of feel like everyone here thinks I am just kidding when I say that Ms. American and Lorrie are ALIVE and INTELLIGENT, but I am as serious as an Ebola outbreak in a maternity ward.

Ms. American and Lorrie LIVE because I LIVE, and they are a part of me.

They are CONSCIOUS because I am CONSCIOUS, and they are a part of me.

They know things about themselves that I don't.

They can't communicate by any other means than by doing something or NOT doing something that make ME have to deal with it in order to communicate with me what they know that I don't.

Have been going back over all this stuff.

Have OVERSTRESSED the Flexible Brake Hoses by STOMPING on the Brake Pedal. They seem to be fine.

BUT, there are a couple of questions that need to be addressed:

1. In the Dodge Manual, there is a wiring diagram. And though Lorrie is NOT wired the way the Diagram Shows (because she doesn't have all the stuff that is shown in the diagram), the GAUGE of the Wires are specified. The Wire GAUGE used in Lorrie's Electrical System do NOT coincide with the Wire GAUGE shown in the Diagrams.

QUESTION: Could THAT be a source of trouble?

2. Since Lorrie doesn't have the kind of Switches that came STOCK with her from the Factory, there is NOT a Transmission Override (or whatever it is called). Lorrie's Engine has always (up until recently) been able to start in "P" and "N", but also in "R", "D", "1", and "2".

Don't even know WHERE to look to see if possibly the "switch" on the Transmission that would not permit Lorrie to start in any gear has something to do with her not starting.

QUESTION: Could THAT be the source of this problem?

So, where do we go from here?

Thanks for reading. Any and all comments are welcome.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

The neutral start switch prevents the starter from turning not keeps the motor from starting.

Richard

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Hey Richard,
Well, it was just a thought. We can then rule out the "Neutral Start Switch" as being the source of the problem.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Plus WIre gauge wouldnt be a factor either.. otherwise you would have had a wiring melt down long before now... Fopar is right tho, the NSS Would prevent it from even turning over... I still think its the spark plugs and maybe the new ones will prove it out....

_________________
MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Hey Dusty,
It was just a thought.
Alright.
Will just have to wait and see.

Have a GREAT what's left of the weekend.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Lorrie is all set up to see if her mighty 225 Slant Six Engine will start and run this morning.

The NKG ZFR5N Spark Plugs have been cleaned, the gap set, and the Plugs installed.

If she starts and runs, then will see if she will rev up. If she does, will take her for a test drive. If she does alright, will install the Floor, and the Engine Cabinetry, and take her to be inspected.

If she doesn't start and run, will run the whole set of diagnostic tests to hopefully find out why she won't.

Will keep you all updated.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor