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 Post subject: Reeds Ford MAF based EFI
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:33 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
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I decided to go EFI when I read Reed's description of Fords MAF based system.
I have collected the parts to make a basic install, but since I am turbocharged, I may make some upgrades right away. So far, I have less than 100.00 in the project, with fuel lines, injectors and bungs, the only items left to buy.
The upgrades are
Siemens Deka 60# injectors 285.00
90mm MAF sensor. 150.00 ish
My tentative plan is to use SCT ProRacer to tune it.

I hope to document all the details in this thread, so that anybody that wants to can try it with their eyes wide open.

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1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:15 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
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The donor
1996 Ford trucks and vans with 4.9 I6 engines share this system.
My donor was an E150 auto trans.
The parts
EEC-V
Most of the good aftermarket info regards EEC-IV. Mustang guys prefer it, but we need to use the OBD-II compliant EEC-V. This make finding some info a little harder to find. I grabbed the 109 pin wire connector with it and cut the harness leaving about two feet of wire to splice to. I also decided to mount the EEC in the firewall like Ford did, so the connector and wire are in the engine bay, while the EEC itself is in the car. That means I took the plastic mount with the EEC.
Distributor
New ones are cheap, but I needed to do some machining to fit the Ford into the slant.
Ignition
The EEC will control timing, so Fords TFI is a requirement. The ICM is remote mounted on the vans driver side fender. The coil is mounted to the engine with a very adaptable bracket.
MAF
Any Ford MAF will work, the size of the MAF is adjusted in the tune.
Coolant temp sensor near the t stat housing
Throttle position sensor
The 4.9 has a two barrel throttle body, a 4.6 crown Vic has a larger throttle body mounted on a tall 90 degree fitting with a round manifold transition. I got one from a Mustang that is bigger yet, mounted to a short 90 with an oval transition, that I believe will work well with my Offy intake. The TPS is compatible.
Intake air temp
Idle air bypass system
I haven't worked out all the details but some are integral to the TB and some are remote. Any help with this is appreciated.
VSS the 96 ford trans has an internal speed sensor, ford rangers use a cable feed through trans mount type. I need 8 pulse per revolution, for the EEC. I think I can make the Ford VSS work with the Mopar cable. Apparently. VSS input can be disabled but there is a programmed strategy to prevent manual transmission cars from stalling on deceleration that relies on VSS input.

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1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:08 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13243
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Why do we "need to use the OBD-II compliant EEC-V"? The EEC-IV is perfectly adaptable to our motors. There are aftermarket tuning devices that will let you adjust every single parameter of the EC-IV programming, even firing order and number of cylinders. It is entirely possible to take a ECU for a 302 and reprogram it to work with a 225. I do not believe that we are limited to using the 1996 only Ford 300 MAF hardware and computer.

Please share any info you get about adapting the VSS.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:35 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
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I should clarify that I think SCT requires EEC-V. SCT writes through the OBD-II port.

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1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:47 am 
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Supercharged
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Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Ah. I have been using the TWEECer, which uses the factory programming port on the EEC unit itself for programming.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:05 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
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Dan provided info on VSS options. From what I gather, two wire sensors are all Hall Effect and provided they produce 8 pulses per rev (8000 per mile, I think) they will work. Dakota electronics makes one that might fit the back of our speedo. BC Broncos has another that may work. I'm going to try some junk yard options to keep cost very low.
I do not think 3 wire sensors will work.

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1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:20 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13243
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Keep me posted. I haven't gotten to the point of looking into the VSS. I seem to recall reading that there are ways to de-activate the need for that signal in the EEC, but I may be wrong.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:40 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
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I'm eager to compare notes between tweecer and SCT as far as ease of use, adjustment parameters etc. I have no experience with either one, but the SCT "seems" easier. Who knows how I obtained that bias. I did look at quarterhorse, tweecer, commando?. The major complaint about SCT seems to be how they protect themselves against piracy. Tuning a different EEC requires buying another license.
A plus for tweecer is being able to swap tunes on the fly, without your laptop, although flashing a different tune with ProRacer supposedly only takes a few minutes.

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1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:58 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
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Location: Hammond In.
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Image

A Ford 4.6 has bore centers similar to ours, so I took a set of fuel rails and cut the end bung off of each. Then I migged a 1/4" stainless pipe nipple between them in the supply to obtain our 2" spacing and a 1/8" SS nipple into the return. I pressure tested by placing #5 rubber stoppers (HomeDepot) into all the open holes and tie wiring them in place. I pressurized the Shrader valve and held it under water. Good to 75 psi.

Cost 12.00. Stock Ford regulator may work with boost ref and pump gas. Anybody have experience with boost referencing this regulator?

Although the bore centers are slightly off, there is plenty of wiggle room in the injector fitment to begin with. If it doesn't work, I'll do it again.

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1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:26 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
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Image
Image
This is the pin out diagram for 109 pin connector EEC-V code BAC-3

These may be available elsewhere, but I had a hard time finding it. A guy at a Ford site was kind enough to send it to me. I've verified the colors/pin locations. So far it checks out.

This is not the same as an EEC-IV connector.

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1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:41 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
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Location: Hammond In.
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Image
This is good info.

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1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:52 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
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http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=6

This site is invaluable. This page in particular shows a good power distribution plan.

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1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:23 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
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What sealed the deal on fuel injection for me was deciding to go with a bigger turbo. I looked at a lot of options and settled on something way too big. A Holset HX40 divided housing. After looking into carb choices, I decided on a QuickFuel 650 blow through. I have no doubt that I could tune it but each tune is very specific. To go E85 once in a while is a big change, for instance. Anyway, that carb is around 700.00 plus linkage, fuel lines etc.

I decided that going for big power without first straightening out my wiring for fuel pumps, etc. would leave the door open for annoyances later on. So I cut out all the offensive wiring and started from scratch.

That's when I stumbled upon Reeds Ford idea. Sequential is the way to go. MAF based seems safest, junkyard is cheapest. I think this system will provide a rock solid fuel platform for whatever wacky induction schemes I may want to try. I also wanted data logging capability and a stand alone system costs
more than I'll have in the EFI and tuning package combined.

I saw a thread that was way over my head about timing control for HEI. RabidGator was mentioned and I looked into it. I found info but no way to order, so I set it aside. Also on another forum Dan was quizzing a guy about his own timing control device, very cool possibilities, but not available any time soon.

I decided to take advantage of the fact that a huge percentage of the trucks ford sold in 1996 were 4.9s. EECs are a dime a dozen and I truly never, ever want to know what's inside that silver box.

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1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


Last edited by KenUSA on Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:58 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:17 pm
Posts: 776
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
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subscribed, this looks like my kind of thread, cheap and efficient lol. but seriously I have an over abundance of these fords at my local yard and get killer deals on parts, that and they almost always have a $100 all you can carry sale once a month or so, too bad i was deployed for their last one.

-Mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:01 am 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:37 am
Posts: 411
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Car Model: 1964 Valiant V200
That's a cool system but I am not clear on why you are choosing a MAF-based system for a turbo car? Most of the really fast Subaru and Mitsubishi guys that I know of are reprogramming their ECUs to do speed density. As someone that has tuned many MAF systems I will warn you that they are very sensitive to the shape and length of the intake tract on either side of them. You need to be sure that your MAF curve is correct before tuning anything else or it will be hard to keep track of your target AFRs.

Some people are experimenting with blow-thru MAFs, which makes the mAF much less of a restriction. Haven't done that myself but could be an interesting way to do it. Same caveat about MAF curve applies.


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