1965 225 block
'69 polished head, 1.77 intake/1.44 exhaust valves
Clifford hydraulic cam kit (.444 lift cam, hydraulic lifters, high lift springs, chrome molly retainers, valve locks, push rods)
Clifford 4 bbl mani, with 500 cfm carb (undecided what one)
Wiseco 10.25:1 pistons, .25 over, k-1 connecting rods.


I'm wondering how much horsepower this will make to the crank, and if anyone has done it. Also would like to know if its reliable enough to be a summer daily.

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1965 Plymouth Belvedere II Turbo Project - SOLD
2002 Subaru OBS
1995 Lexus LS400 Race Car

We;'d need the actual static ratio to see what you are doing (you did CC the chambers and get your deck height measurements during assembly?)
What head gakset are you using?

Couple items:
Not sure on the Clifford cam, in my experience .44 is to little lift for a 10:1+ slant six...especially if you put a goot port job on the head- .480 is about right and about 270 duration would be good. Hopefully you are also using the hydro cam with hydro lifters and have the 1980's hydro rocker arms and properly sized pushrods (We've seen Clifford sell a juice cam to someone and didn't explain the whole conversion...)

What exhaust configuration are you going with? What rear ratio are you saddling up with?


If we make some assumptions:

Single 2.25" exhaust, 2.94 ratio...reverse engineering from a lazy 1/4 time...you might be at 160-170 crank hp...

If you go better exhaust, headers(?), little more cam, 3.23 rear, etc... you might be closer to 190 crank hp...


-D.Idiot

Others will chime in, but I have a similar Clifford cam- very mild on a stock engine. As DI said, TOO small for (actual) 10.25:1- if static CR is that high you need a larger (longer duration ) cam to bleed off pressure or it'll detonate on premium. Do searches for Dynamic Compression calculator. you plug in cam specs & eng info to get a more useable CR- I think others have recc about 8:1 dynamic CR.

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63 Valiant Wagon
225 - 4 bbl

Just in case you don't know, the entire valve train needs to be changed out to Hydraulic parts to use hydraulic lifters in your engine. Oil is fed from the rocker shaft, out through the rockers, down through the push rods and to the lifters. There is no oiling provision in the block of a slant six to feed oil to hydraulic lifters, even in the hydraulic system. The mechanical system does not deliver pressurized oil beyond the rocker shaft, and not enough is delivered for the purpose. If your rockers have adjusters on them, they aren't the right ones.

This has been explained extensively to the owner of Clifford. If he didn't expain that to you, he's still not paying attention. The parts must be changed out, or you will wipe the lifters and cam very quickly. You might get a couple hundred miles out of them.
If you understand this, and have replaced the rocker shaft, rockers, pushrods and so forth with appropriate parts, please disregard.

That said, there are far more performance cam options available for the mechanical valve train. With more duration and lift, you will be in good shape given appropriate final gear ratio and stall if applicable. If your set on a hydraulic cam, search the site and visit the FAQ. There is information there for OCG's Hydraulic profiles. You will want a pretty nasty cam to make use of the flow capabilities and compression described. Scavenging won't be adequate without more overlap, so cylinder fill will be lower, producing less power.

The Edelbrock AFB or AVS will work well with the combination. Leave the spring alone for the AVS secondary. It works well at the factory setting. Loosening it up just a small amount will induce a bog even on most race engines, except for the nastiest. lightest examples. Save the money and mount an AFB. Fuel economy will be better with a Holley 390 vacuum secondary, but there will be a lot of tuning to get there. The AFB will be pretty close, if not right on out of the box. I reduced the pump shot on my Carter AFB. That was the only change from base metering.

So you decided you wanted a long rod huh? They can be fun! There are arguments on both sides of that coin as well. Piston acceleration during the power impulse and so forth.

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

I'm building basically the same engine as you but I am using a .480 something lift cam from OCG. I'm even contemplating a bigger cam.

Those springs, according to my machinist, are good for more than .500 lift. He set up the guides for clearance with .500 lift just in case I want to use more cam.

Also, the factory rockers are nominally 1.5 ratio but in reality mine look more like 1.40 ratio. So a .500 lift cam will only be a 'real' lift of .466 minus lash at the valve.

Thank you for all the input, also, I was wondering about stroking it a little bit. Is there any room for that with the pistons and 198 rods? Would I have to get a custom crankshaft? I plan on building the car for drifting, which I'm sure to get hated on for... BUT, I need the torque. I want to aim for around 250 horse, and all the torque I can get. I know slants are torquey-er engines because of the small bore, and they are alot lighter than the 440 option I was considering. Which is why I want to build it.

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1965 Plymouth Belvedere II Turbo Project - SOLD
2002 Subaru OBS
1995 Lexus LS400 Race Car

Stroking a long rod is possible. The Hooptie has a big stroke in a long rod build.

What needs to happen with the crank depends entirely on how much you want to stroke it. An offset grind can get you a bit, without moving things too far. Pistons need to be selected that will give you an appropriate deck. If you want to run pump gas, the compression height of the piston needs to be worked out.
There are an infinite number of possibilities when custom parts are sourced.

To bring it into perspective, the Hooptie runs 7.005" 198 rods that have been "Modified." The stroke is 4.475". The deck has been cut 0.125", and the head 0.040". The pistons are Aftermarket 3.445" Hypereutectics originally meant for a 1.6L Toyota four banger. They have a very short compression height.
The crank was welded up, straightened, machined to std slant six forged crank bearings. The pistons are still down the hole 0.050".
SCR was 11:1 with a scary high DCR in the 9's. With the cam presently in there, and freshly cut seats to increase chamber volume, it comes to 10.6:1 and closer to mid 8:1 DCR. It doesn't play well with pump gas. It didn't detonate with the higher DCR because scavenging was terrible. Cylinder fill was attrocious, so volumetric efficiency was aweful.
With the new cam, I get much better VE, so it will ping if I don't mix Race fuel with the Premium pump gas, though I don't run squat for advance.

If you really want to build a long rod stroker, don't stroke it too far. Metric rings have advantages and disadvantages. They are prone to flutter, and the oil ring pressure on this small a bore can be easily overcome trying to squeegie the oil off before it floods your fluttering compression rings. (Smoke)
Gapless rings suck. Don't use them no matter how much your builder tells you how great they are. If you do, be ready to suffer the embarassment of oil smoke. Perhaps for the life of the engine if your running metrics.

Clearance the block and the sleeves. A stroked throw will get very close in some places.

While your at it, in the case of oversize valves, mount the head to the block with no guts in it. Flip it over and verify the combustion chambers are aligned with the bores. Nothing like doing an expensive valve job, tagging a cylinder wall with a valve, and getting to do it over again.

2¢

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing