Rob Simmons had asked recently if I had worked out my clutch issues...

For those that have wanted to swap out their NP-235/435 for an A-833OD in a truck...or in my case decide you need more flywheel and clutch to move a fat late model car...

This is the current side project I have been working on in my shop:

I'll get the dummy mocked up on a block and crank and breakout the dial indicator to check centering on the input shaft and see if I need any offset dowels...

This should keep me from roasting anymore derated #%*$#^$! clutches, and it will allow use of a stock over the counter big block diaphragm clutch as well...











After it all gets fine tuned I'll carve the plate up so I can see how it fits in an A-body...I think long tube headers are out due to the low slung starter, and it also looks like Z-bar position body to bell may need an offset plate...

More as this project progresses...

-D.Idiot

If I remember rightly, that bell housing has dual bolt patterns. One of those patterns match the top bolts holes for the A833. The bottom bolts are below the bell housing edge. I always figured a piece of angle iron could be used to secure the bottom bolts. Never followed thru with the idea thou, good luck with the side project.

None of the bolts on the 1977 bell used in the pic, and the 1981 bell I have match anything between the two tranny patterns....If you did try to ni-rod an extra lip onto the bottom, you might be able to redrill the bell for the A-833....but the indexing and the ni-rod welding is a lot of time and effort compared to the price of having a place buzz out a peice of aluminum with the proper retainer hole in it....

Currently I have it mocked up in the shop with the input shaft centered into the pilot bushing....to support the input shaft properly with the plate a Dakota pilot bushing will be required....

more after some more fun on Sunday...

-D.Idiot

Finally got room in my shop to do a test fit on the FDX hull, using a clean empty cast crank block and a dummy A-833OD...

Test fit of engine and bell shows that indeed mopar had intended enough room for an A-727 of any variety in late bodies, plenty of room for fitment.



One item of concern is the upper lug for the clutch linkage attachment to the bellhousing, the engine and tranny are riding high/not fully seated in the spool cradles so there may be some room to move, i may use Mr.BFH to put a dent in that spot for a little extra clearance.




Also Mopar left enough 'play' in the slots of the stock crossmember mounts and tranny mount that it looks like everything will bolt in just fine.



Final concern looks to be the shifter location as the pad has moved about 1.25-1.5" aft compared to the stock slant six installation. This comes from a combination of the truck NP bellhousing being about 5/8" longer than the slant six standard bellhousing, and the aluminum adaptor plate I used at another 5/8-3/4".


I know the shifter rods do not have more than about 3/8" of adjustment on the rods, so making an offset mounting plate for the shifter will not work without new rods, this makes the only other option to move the shifter hole, cut a larger hole, or make a custom "hump".

If the fitment goes well, I may fit this setup to last year's hipo block in the blue duster and torture test with a standard diaphragm Luk clutch set up (I figure I won't cry too bad if i lunch an inexpensive setup and the organic material should be fine for the amount of torque and power I've been killing the Spec clutches with, and have enough give that If i do kill it, it will fade rather then explode.) One other side effect I'm eager to see is if the added weight of the flywheel and clutch will give harder launches to the fat A-body since the heavier truck flywheels seem to launch better than the lighter stock car version.

More soon!



-D.Idiot

Nice work. I like this kind of factory + engineering.

_________________
Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

_________________
'72 Duster 198 stock cam, 3:23's Hookers on jack stands for 8 years in the driveway
'79 Maxivan 360 Offy Qjet Comp RV cam/rusting in the driveway.
93 D350 160HP Cummins Auto Dually Clubcab needs a injector pump
2005 Golden Couch Buick

Rob Simmons recently worked out issues...

Well it's about time. Has he cured his ADDD? Has he fixed that girlie roll bar? Maybe there is hope for the guy after all.

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66 Lil' Red Piggie Valiant (Mater Crusher) - Thanks Zilla!!!!! 72 Demon (Number 1 Son's)

Hey Cookie! Do you just look for ways to torment me? This thread ain't got nuthin' to do with you,... er me fer that matter!

You just try & figger out yer own tranny issues and leave threads like this for folks like my Battle Buddy who actually KNOW what they're doin'!

Sorry fer the distraction D.I.

(Cookie ain't got no manners at all. )

I like what you're doing using factory parts to expand our Slanted horizons!

_________________
Rob

I’m Mater
The Kentucky Poser

Man, I was doing good until I smacked the crossmember into place and ended up with a face full of rusty crumbling floor pan...pththppthppthh.

Anyhow here's how much fun I had for 5 hours today (my body definately can feel it...):



The stock cross member works like normal, but you have to take the tailshaft mount and use a die grinder to oval the holes about 3/8"-1/2" toward the rear of the mount to slide it further back than stock.



Next up for punishment I installed a mini-starter to see what room I had as the centerlink and pitman arm looked a bit close for comfort:



That bolt is almost on the pitman arm, but after rolling the steering wheel both ways it doesn't seem to contact it. I used rubber bushings to test fit the engine block, so using the Spiva Poly Bushings I won't have a problem with the mounts settling or slouching,



After that I found that the bell is a bit offset from the normal A-body bell (by quite a bit), and also the mounting bolts are much larger than the A-body bell as well. So after templating a pattern on cardboard then finding a piece of medium 3x3 angle Iron I had laying around I fabricated a bolt on mount that uses the bell mounting holes and the A-body pivot:



Note I used a 3lb hammer to make a little more room at the floor pan to clear the mounting pad on the bellhousing.

With this another 2 problems came up in fitment: 1) The stock Z-bar while aligned was OK, it was too wide to fit between the bracket and the stock car frame mount. 2) The stock 7" long A-body clutch lever push rod may be a bit short by 2" (will test this once I get a clutch and flywheel installed).

To fix item #1, I pulled out my handy-dandy peanut grinder and a cut off wheel and proceeded to remove 1/2" from each end of the Z-bar. This worked after smoothing the lip of the truncated ends, but I will now have to relocate the holes of the clip and limiting dowels used to hold the plastic bushings in place.




Before calling it a day and looking in the engine bay I took a quick look and started noticing the limited real estate left for the exhaust pipe...At this point I decided to mark the block on centerlink travel and oil pan location, and then test fit two set ups in the area left:

Stock Feather Duster Exhaust Header:



Dutra Dual 2" pipes:





Thinking that this setup will work fine for single exhaust, Dutra Duals, or Dual Duals, and maybe the 6 into 1 header if short enough before plunging under the engine bay... looking at my other car, I think that those clifford long tubes are definately not going to fit.

Now that I know it fits, I will pull the power train out of the Hyperpak duster and fit this setup in it for the real deal (clutch and all). Will also either set back up for dutra duals or I have a set of dual duals I was saving for this conversion to go with a certain EFI setup...



More after I pull the other mill and tranny....





-D.Idiot

"Dusteridiot's idle hands make better slant six playthings..."

Pulled the engine and tranny out of the hyperpak duster.
(Headers were a PITA to get past the centerlink, even with the steering turned to give minimal aspect of the link...)


Also looks like the rear mail seal didn't make it on the engine, so I'll swap all the "stuff" over to another block I have (with more compression) and get it ready for the conversion.

More fun and pics tomorrow.

-D.Idiot

Pulled the engine and tranny out of the hyperpak duster.
(Headers were a PITA to get past the centerlink, even with the steering turned to give minimal aspect of the link...)


Also looks like the rear mail seal didn't make it on the engine, so I'll swap all the "stuff" over to another block I have (with more compression) and get it ready for the conversion.

More fun and pics tomorrow.

-D.Idiot

Well pulled the power train apart from the Hpak duster and found a number of interesting issues that definately caused my early 'pack it up and go home' at the last drag race:

I put enough hurt on the system that:
1) Felpro rear main seal was now leaking...
2) Stage 4 Spec 6 prong Puck Clutch showed severe wear on the flywheel side of the material facings (almost to the rivets...and that was only after maybe 20-30 runs total last year...)
3) 2 of the ARP clutch cover bolts were only hand tight (found this after I removed the bellhousing), I always red threadlocker and torque these, the ARP bolts showed signs of having at least 1/4" of loctite on them but still had backed out under hard launches...
4) Best one of all, 2 of the 6 ARP Flywheel to Crank bolts had backed out a 1/4" on inch...these also had been loctited and torqued...


So...

I spent the day putting together engine #2 using the cam and lifters from this last engine (OCG 549 and lifters look really good after that season!)

I cc'd my 3 hi-po heads and will install one tomorrow to complete the engine (looks like if I use the 42 cc late peanut plug head I'll be at 12.35:1 SCR).

I then pulled my virgin OEM John Deere/truck flywheel to clean and prep for mounting:



I almost wonder, since the flywheel has both patterns if I could have just gone with a small block clutch mated to the same wheel instead of the bigblock/truck clutch... (makes for an interesting idea of having these made in aluminum and being able to bolt a 340 clutch to it...)

Anyhow, I have the truck clutch anyway and it has a bit more material on the friction disc to apply... so tomorrow, I'll finish the engine and get the flywheel and clutch assembly mated to it.

-D.Idiot

It's all in and I didn't have to cut anything!



Best tool to align the clutch is using a tranny input shaft.



Bellhousing clearance is about as roomy as the normal 4 or 3 speed car bellhousing. But because of the clearance with the TOB and the diaphragm fingers/tines, to assemble I had to install the TOB and clutch fork first then install the transmission. FYI.



note that the truck clutch uses 3/8" bolts not the little 5/16" bolts like the regular sized clutches do, although my 1976 book says the 400/440 uses the 5/16" bolts but the 318/360 section says 3/8"...it's 3/8". FYI, this bolt is the same as the Chevy clutch uses, so if you need clutch bolts Mr.Gasket #910 off the performance section rack (and always in stock!) at your local store.



Here is a pic of the linkage n' stuff before the crossmember is in place.
Shift Linkage once the crosssmember was bolted into place all was clear like a normal installation. Consequently: Install the tranny crossmember to the tranny first then jack it into place and bolt the crossmember to the body last, that will save you some four letter frustration later.



A view of the linkage from behind and clutch fork from behind.




Final assembly looking forward.
The stock driveline slipped right into place and still had about 3/4"-1.25" between the tailshaft yoke seal and the useable end of the yoke itself...plenty of room.



Much to my surprise the shiftermechanism when bolted up just cleared the back of the stock shifter hole...Running it through the gears I got no interference at all...I was able to reinstall the boot and bezel and call it good (note: I have bucket seats, this may not work for the benchseat user especially if shorter in stature...FYI.)

Just sitting in the chair and pushing on the pedal it has the same feel as the Borg and Beck 9" clutch (I am not using a return spring as I deep sixed it because the Spec clutches don't need it, pedal seems to return OK though. )



So after hooking up the linkage (stock 7" long A-body fork rod from Brewer's actually needed to be adjusted back 2" from the normal bellhousing settings-so now i have more room for 'play' if needed).

Alas, lining up the exhaust in the engine bay shows that neither stock exhaust, dutra duals, or headers (maybe clifford shorties,???) are going to fit...I'm going to pull a trick off the 63-66 guys and Y-pipe the dutra dual duals into a single pipe and go through the K-member/strut rod pocket ahead of the steering box and go single larger pipe to the rear
(being that I will probably race this more than street driving, muffler may be optional at this point...)



More once I get the exhaust completed and intake installed and get a test drive.

-D.Idiot

Nice work DI,,
I have a question,
on normal slant six, manual bell housing , on the starter side there is a heavy elongated A shaped piece of steel that bolts directly to the block and has a 90 degree flange that mounts to the bell housing,

are you planing on fabbing in something like that on the setup that you are working ?

Yes, the normal bell has a "wing" like the 904 automatic/3-4spd bell. On the early 60's NP435 bellhousing they have a wing that bolts to the bell and is 'centered' on the oil pan rail bolts (because that bellhousing has a face plate much like the adaptor plate to put the LA727 to a slat six).

On the 70's-80's NP435 bellhousing they got rid of that mating area on the bellhousing (and the closed face as well). So there is no place to install a support since it would have to share the same spot as the low mount starter, and the only thing lower than that is the cover pan (can't take much flex or torque there).

I will test things first, if I find too much flex after some rough roads or hard launches I may need to install something to sandwich at the starter mount or between the bell and cover pan. I'm hoping that like most things mopar engineered that this item isn't required because of the bellhousing configuration.

Stay tuned!



-D.Idiot

"First, over the course of 6 years there wasn't an automatic that would hold up behind my driving...now I've built a much smaller engine, thinking that a clutch should be able to hold up behind it without complaining...obviously the engine decided to say - Oh no you don't!"