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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:27 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:05 pm
Posts: 217
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I don't have a helper at the moment unfortunately, but I do see the merit in that.
I drilled the passage slightly larger and am now able to get the probe down the full 10", with some fighting.
Also, does the oiling hole go thru the rear most bolt hole? My probe does not go in very far at all with the bolt in place.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:37 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:44 am
Posts: 203
Location: Whitby Ontario
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Quote:
I don't have a helper at the moment unfortunately, but I do see the merit in that.
I drilled the passage slightly larger and am now able to get the probe down the full 10", with some fighting.
Also, does the oiling hole go thru the rear most bolt hole? My probe does not go in very far at all with the bolt in place.
Reed is spot on with the "drag" test. One more thing, now that you can get the probe down the hole is to re check for oil flow. Crank the engine on the starter and see if you get oil out the hole. This will be key to asses before going further. If you now get oil then the bearing should be OK. I'd shoot some carb cleaner down the hole and let sit. Then probe again and see if it clears up the fighting. Once good flow is established you can move on to checking the rest of the oil path.

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Mattelderca
78 NYB (gone now), two S series, three old Snow Cruisers and a Doo.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:43 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:05 pm
Posts: 217
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My dad insists that the starter won't be able to get oil flowing well enough to push it up the hole. You guys positive it will?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:46 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13280
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Quote:
I don't have a helper at the moment unfortunately, but I do see the merit in that.
I drilled the passage slightly larger and am now able to get the probe down the full 10", with some fighting.
Also, does the oiling hole go thru the rear most bolt hole? My probe does not go in very far at all with the bolt in place.
If drilling made the probe go in further, it sounds like you have some crud blocking the passage then. You really need this passage to be as free flowing as possible on a hydraulic motor since the oil that flows through this passage must be of sufficient volume to pump up all 12 lifters. How big is the probe you are using? Is it close to the total diameter of the oil passage? I recommend you drill or work the probe enough to make the probe slide easily in and out. Just don't drill your cam.

With regards to the oil hole in the rearmost rocker arm shaft saddle, look at the inset in the top right corner of this diagram:

Image

I am surprised you can get to the hole at all with the rearmost bolt in place. The oil flow out of the hole, around the rearmost bolt, and then up into the rocker arm shaft.

If you get the probe to go in to the proper depth, you may want to do an engine de-gunking session to make sure you get as much buildup out of the engine as possible. Here is what Dan had to say about de-gunking an engine:
Quote:
Careful-careful-careful. Those "engine flush" compounds you can find at the auto parts store can do a tremendous amount of damage.

I have long maintained that your engine is not a toilet (Chevrolet Vega, Cadillac HT4100 and V8-6-4, and Ford 3.0 owners excepted) and therefore does not need flushing except under specific and rare conditions as a corrective measure. Everyone's got a pet theory on how best to flush a crudded-up engine without pulling the pan. Some methods are harmless but ineffective. Some methods are potentially harmful. Some methods are harmless and effective. For best results, pick one of that last kind.

I do not believe there is any such thing as a safe, effective and fast engine flush procedure. You can pick any two of these three: Safe and effective (but not fast), safe and fast (but not effective), effective and fast (but not safe). The risks fall into two categories:
Softening/damaging engine gaskets and seals so they don't seal well any more
Sweeping large amounts of dirt and crud from its resting place into the oil filter, which plugs and goes into bypass mode, sending the cräp directly to the bearings and quickly failing the engine. I watched this happen to a Chev 305 once. It was quite a spectacle.


Those "5-minute engine flush" compounds mostly contain Butyl Cellosolve,
which is a specialized solvent that's very good at one particular task: Cleaning the mayonnaise out of a crankcase that's had coolant in it due to a faulty head (etc.) gasket. Their use in any other situation is risky.

My own engine flush recipe is a delicious blend of Marvel Mystery Oil (very light weight and good at dissolving gums and sludges), Kroil (best penetrant on the planet), ATF (detergent/dispersant with good lubricity), and Berryman B12 ChemTool (good at dissolving crud too tough for Marvel Mystery Oil). My procedure involves warming up the engine, draining the oil, changing the oil filter, replacing the drain plug (!), and pouring in the soup. For a 5-quart crankcase, I usually start with 1/1/2/1 (Marvel/Kroil/ATF/B12). Then start and run the engine in the driveway at around 1200 to 1700 RPM with no sudden acceleration and no load applied, for 15 minutes.

Shut down, drain (really let it drain, walk away for 45 minutes), change the filter again, repeat with new soup for 30 to 45 minutes depending how gross the first batch of soup was when it was drained and how quickly the second batch of soup cruds up. Check the dipstick periodically.

If the 2nd batch of soup comes out coalmine black and full of chunks, run in another batch of soup (and another new filter!) and repeat until chips, chunks and tar stop coming out when you drain it.

You'll note the filter is replaced before any attempt is made to introduce a flushing agent into the crankcase, and the filter is replaced again every time you drain a batch of flushing soup. Without doing this, you run the very real risk of inundating the filter, which will go into bypass mode and send all the loosened-up crud directly to the bearings and other critical parts: Goodbye, engine, it was nice gnawing you.

I've gotten amazing amounts of corruption and trash out of engines using this recipe and method. Other methods and other recipes may work better
for other people with other cars. And as always, be advised that if the engine is really tired and whipped, even a safe flush can cause additional problems in the form of "new" leaks.

_________________
Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:48 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13280
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Quote:
My dad insists that the starter won't be able to get oil flowing well enough to push it up the hole. You guys positive it will?
Yes. You aren't looking for high pressure arterial spray, just confirmation that oil will pump all the way up to the rocker arm shaft. The oil pump SHOULD be able to push oil up to the rocker shaft no problem.

_________________
Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:49 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:05 pm
Posts: 217
Car Model:
Sorry, I meant the rear most head bolt hole on the passenger side. With it in place, my probe won't go down further than a couple inches.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:20 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:05 pm
Posts: 217
Car Model:
So my dad called today to tell me that the engine is no longer ticking. He pulled the oil pump and shot air through the oil passages, took the pressure relief valve off and cleaned everything up then resembled the engine. Oil pressure is 50lbs at idle and there is some oil getting up top. How much oil is supposed to reach the top? Should the shaft actually fill?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:32 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:25 pm
Posts: 5613
Location: Downeast Maine
Car Model:
Enough oil to ooze over rocker arms at in gear idle to keep lifter, push rod, and valve stem lubed.

As for how full rocker shaft gets I don’t know, but there has to be enough oil under enough pressure to make it to the top of the rocker arms; so after thinking about it, full I guess.

I know when adjusting lash on my engine if it is not idled down to 500 rpm or lower, oil will be squirted all over passenger’s inner and outer fender, base of windshield, and a good deal onto floor. She’s a messy girl when her valve cover is off…

Were the ticking is now gone from your engine I suspect it is getting enough oil to top end.

Use of quality high detergent oil and frequent filter changes should continue to clean & capture any remaining baked on crud still lurking in engine.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Image


Last edited by wjajr on Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:58 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:14 pm
Posts: 759
Car Model:
my mistake


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