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I've been reading the latest Lorrie story with great interest,to be honest I really don't think you have a thing to worry about regarding engine condition,but I guess for your own peace of mind you need to do what makes you comfortable.
Hey Mr. SS,
Am hoping that you're right about not worrying regarding Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine. With each step in the process going well, am feeling a bit more confidence that everything is going to be alright. Am feeling more comfortable knowing that each thing is being done correctly.
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It's a 25000 mile engine right?
Yes.
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You've always changed the oil,
Well Mr SS, what I'm about to tell you is might make you go into paroxysms of negativity. It had that effect on one of our resident gurus here (SlantSixDan) to the point to where he no longer responds to any of my posts. But you wouldn't respect me were I not truthful and forthright with you so I'm going to tell you the straight skinny, and we'll take it from there. The TRVTH is that Lorrie's Oil had not been changed since it was put in NEW when it the mighty 225 Slant Six Engine was rebuilt in 1985!
But before you condemn that, permit me to explain why that is.
Am going to ask you to keep an open mind concerning this explanation. If after reading the explanation you are not persuaded then you may wreak whatever havoc on me that you feel is necessary and fitting. Alright?
As you have read in this thread, Lorrie has a Frantz Oil Cleaner System (FOCS) installed.
My father was a Frantz Oil Cleaner Distributor and when Lorrie came to live with me in 1975, he installed a FOCS on her mighty 225 Slant Six Engine.
The standard operating procedure regarding the FOCS is that one needs not change the oil as long as the FOCS Filter Element is changed regularly (every 2,000 miles), which HAS been done with Lorrie.
It is a widely held paradigm that one MUST change an Engine's Oil because it "wears" out. But according to the FOC information, that is not exactly true. In fact, the FOC information on this subject, says that OLD oil is better at lubricating an Engine as long as it contains no pollutants and dilutants because it is "softer" due to the polymer chains being broken.
This concept is somewhat controversial. It is accepted in some sectors of the automotive world and flatly rejected in other sectors. But the proof is in results.
What has happened to Lorrie Engine is NOT the result of her not having had her Oil changed, but it is due to the extenuating circumstance of having sat without being used for sixteen years between 1996 and 2012.
With that said, permit me to describe the FOCS: It is a bypass filtering system much akin to the method used to "reclaim" Oil, which is a process that removes ALL the pollutants (little chunks of stuff such as metal, dust and etc.) and ALL the dilutants (moisture), by a rigorous filtering of the Oil. Doing this leaves one with perfectly good Oil.
The contention that Oil "wears out" is attributed to the heat and pressures it experiences in an Engine. BUT, if heat and pressure "wears out" Oil, how come it didn't wear out when it was being made? It had endured millions of years of heat and pressure in its formation.
Another contention about what it means to "wear out" the Oil is that the additives put into it by the manufacturers become depleted.
The installation of the FOCS is a follows: An Adapter Plate is installed where normally the standard pleated-paper Oil Filter goes.
From that Adapter, a 1/4" Hydraulic Hose goes to the INLET of the FOCS.
The Oil that would normally go through the standard Oil Filter goes through that Hydraulic Hose to the FOCS, where iIt is forced by the Oil Pressure from the Oil Pump through the FOCS Filter Element which removes ALL the pollutants and ALL the dilutants from it, after which it is returned to the Engine's Oil Pan via another Hydraulic Hose.
The FOCS Filter Element has 10,000 times the filtration power of the pleated-paper filtering element in a standard Oil Filter. FOCS supplies these Filter Elements, or you can get them at your local Supermarket.
When my father installed the FOCS on Lorrie's Engine, he gave me a case of these Filtering Elements. The brand of Filtering Elements that have been being used on Lorrie and Ms. American 3.14159 is a roll of Safeway Truely Fine two-ply, facial-quality bathroom tissue paper! You may refer to this as toilet paper.
It is the property of a roll of tissue paper that no chunks of anything is able to work its way through that kind of filtration density.
Also if you dip a roll of toilet paper into a bucket of Oil, it will soak up the Oil. If you then dip it into a bucket of water, the water will displace the Oil. If you then dip it back into the Oil, the Oil will NOT displace the water. So in effect, the dilutants which under heat and pressure in the hydrocarbon environment of an engine turn into hydrochloric and sulfuric acids are removed from the Oil.
So essentially what one has is a "reclaiming" system fitted to one's Engine.
As to the results of this let me illustrate the efficacy of it by way of an anecdote: When Ms. American 3.14159's Engine was rebuilt in 1989 it had 167,866 miles on it. We pulled the Engine and mounted it on an Engine Stand. I proceeded to remove the Valve Covers and the Oil Pan. The mechanics at the shop where I was doing the rebuilt looked at the Valve Train and the Crankshaft and said: "This Engine has just been rebuilt!" It was perfectly clean! There was NEW Oil put into Ms. American's Engine at that time and has not been changed since. The last time her Valves were adjusted, the Valve Train was perfectly clean. No sludge, no build-up of any kind. The same was true of Lorrie's Valve Train when her Valve Cover was last taken off.
Anyway, think what you may about the FOCS. The fact is that it is a much more efficient system of Oil Filtration than the standard pleated-paper Oil Filter.
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OK,it sat for years, but its had oil changes and been run since then. IF I was in your position I'd look at it this way: It was running fine until the uni joint broke and everything got shaken up pretty bad, including an old sticky oil pressure gauge that now reads something different, I put a new gauge on and oil press within limits,that's good.
Lorrie has a brand NEW Stewart Warner Oil Pressure Gauge too. It also shows that the Oil Pressure is 40 PSI at speed and at idle.
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The car runs different now and has unusual shudders, shakes,and "drags" I think I read?
I'm very used to how Lorrie "feels" when I drive her. She "feels" different since the U-Joint failure and the advent of low Oil Pressure.
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This isn't bearing related, if it had a bearing problem you'd have very low oil press at idle, you don't, also there would be metal in the oil filter....have you inspected the filter for metal?
Yes. There was absolutely no metal on the top of the Filter Element which there would be if there was any in the Oil.
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I installed bearings for a living in the aircraft industry on and off for 20 years, I know a thing or two about bearing crush, you don't need to worry about it in your engine.
Am VERY happy to hear someone who knows about such things give me a reassurance on that count.
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You pulled the oil pump due to your concern, have you stripped it and inspected it?
No. But I have hand spun it and it seems to be smooth and tight. Am not convinced that the problem is the Oil Pump, but it was the next thing in the line in the quest for the reason for the reduction in Oil Pressure that Lorrie's Oil Pressure Gauges are reporting.
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Has it had metal or crap through it?
Not that I can tell. Again, it is smooth and tight.
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Old parts can tell you a very valuable story about and engine! I have never fitted an aftermarket pump to a slant six in my life ( the oil pumps are different in Australia so its a matter of using old rebuilt pumps), but from what others have mentioned you are putting yourself at risk of busting up a beautiful relationship between the old oil pump gear and your cam, they are happy, now your introducing another party into the relationship!! By the sounds of it, the new members can be real trouble makers, sure, it sounds attractive at the time,but at what cost? You could lose your cam, gone for ever,taken from a happy relationship, destroyed by a "good idea at the time" and then thrown in the trash when that trouble making new pump has finished with it!! If however the oil pump is the equivalent of a millionaire supermodel of oil pumps your cam may be happy.....very happy! but its a risk.
I feel the same way about this, what am I to do? What if the OLD Oil Pump isn't putting out the pressure? What if it has just worn past being able to do the job. The only way that I can tell is by putting a NEW Oil Pump on it. BTW, this is not a rebuilt/remanufactured Pump. It is an American made unit and seems to be really well made. The casting is good, it is tight and smooth. How about this idea: If once it is installed and it too puts out only 40 PSI then we will know that the problem lies elsewhere. I will pull the NEW Pump and reinstall the OLD Pump to maintain the relationship between it and the Cam.
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Basically, look at your old pump, if its good, use it and and reduce a risk, give it a make over and your cam will be very happy!! You may be creating your own problems by fitting the new pump.
It's hard to know what the best thing to do is. I just this morning finished cutting a NEW Gasket for the NEW Oil Pump. It is all ready to install. Am going to drop the Oil Pan and if there is anything revealed that can be definitively construed as being the culprit that is lowering the Oil Pressure, will reinstall the OLD Pump.
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You've satisfied yourself that the oil on the dipstick looked ok, sure the oil you drained looked dirty, if you really really want to pull the sump, go for it, it's a gasket and your time, it won't have inches of crap in it, but you can't do any harm either.
Someone mentioned that the carbon in the Oil might have settled out of it during Lorrie's sixteen year long coma. Am thinking that THAT is what has happened, and THAT is the reason for dropping the Oil Pan.
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I'm not familiar with your oil filter system,sure, it may filter oil to a state that's more pure than Bambi's urine, but does your engine need the added length of hoses and a possible restriction of an ultra fine filter?
Actually, the FOCS has been on Lorrie, and trouble free, for thirty-nine years.
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Can if flow as much oil as your engine needs?
It is a by-pass system. It doesn't restrict the flow of the Oil in any way.
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Remember that a good quality spin on filter and an engine built and maintained correctly will last for hundreds of thousands of miles, assuming your oil pressure gauge was accurate (which it wasn't) have you considered the oils filter may be clogged and acting as a restriction?
The ENTIRE FOCS was removed yesterday and it is in perfect working order. No clogging, no restrictions. Am installing NEW Hydraulic Hoses because the OLD thirty-nine year old hoses were showing signs of wear and cracking. When they were removed, they were not clogged.
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So what's all the strange sounds and shakes?
Actually, there aren't any "sounds and shakes". What is wrong is a combination of the low Oil Pressure on two Stewart Warner Oil Pressure Gauges and a "different feel" when driving Lorrie.
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Is the driveshaft a two piece splined setup with a Center bearing
No.
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or just a conventional setup?
Yes.
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If its a two piece design did you fit the splines together so the front and rear joints are lined up correctly?
Not applicable.
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Did you get the shaft checked for bends after it got whipped about and tossed onto the road?
Actually it didn't get "whipped about and tossed". It started vibrating and immediately pulled over and stopped. I got out and looked under Lorrie and could see nothing amiss. I thought that maybe one of the Tires was coming apart. Not seeing anything amiss, I got back into Lorrie and put the transmission in Drive, and there was a clunk and then nothing. I thought then that the Transmission had failed. I got out and looked under Lorrie again, and the Drive Shaft was lying on the pavement.
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If I really wanted to pull a sump off I'd probably be pulling the trans pan and having a good look, clean the filter and give it a good service.
May end up doing that, but right now am just wanting to get Lorrie back up and running.
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If things are concerning you I understand you need to do what puts your mind at ease and wish you well in your tasks ,we all have concerns about our own cars and projects and deem what we think is the best way to take on a task, all I'm doing is airing my thoughts and concerns and trying to give you another point of view, good luck with Lorrie and regaining peace of mind with her reliability.
I want to thank you for you VERY nice response. It is greatly appreciated. After reading about the FOCS, I'd very much like to get your reaction to it. There is a lot of FOCS information on the Internet both pro and con. A search will turn up all kinds of opinions. I happen to really like the FOCS, but that's just me.
Hope this finds YOU doing well, and thanks again for the VERY thoughtful response.
JC
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