Okay, after mugh thought and consideration. I have decided that my bottom end is in great shape ( the engine, that is). With that in mind, I think I will do a two-stage build up. Stage one would be installing a cam, lifters, improved exhaust and extensive head work and carburetion. Stage two will be will building a short block next winter and install my stage one top end on it when I swap the motor.

SO-
Leaving the block stock for now how much should I shave off the head, with porting and oversize valves? Car is a 77 Volare'
Also what is the best exhaust to use with this that does not cost a king's ransom? I hear only bad things about Cliffords headers, and the "Dutra Duals" are $600 just for the manifolds. Is there a happy medium for now?


Finally-Does anyone have any used 4bbl intake, headers, carb for sale?

The only bad part about Clifford headers is Clifford's customer service. Buy a used pair off the interweb and you'll be a lot happier.

Nothing personal against anyone, but most of the people who tell you Clifford headers suck have never owned a set.

I wasn't aware Doug's manifolds had gotten so pricey, but he has to make money too or it isn't worth doing.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

Keep your eyes peeled, there have been a few sets of long tube headers on craigslist over the last 18 months I picked up my set with dual tail pipes out of Vancouver for $150...there was a set of long tubes in Estacada last year for $125...

Just search every morning while eating your wheaties and jump on it when a set shows up.

(There's a guy in Ridgefield WA that is on crack who has a completely rebuilt block with headers/clifford intake and all the hardware includes A904 distributors and orange boxes but dreams at $3400 for the package).

-D.Idiot

So how much should I shave the head and what cam grind would be best for my current stock block and stock converter with 4bbl and headers? Want the most bang I can get with this two step plan.

Sadly, there is no way for us to tell you how much to mill the head without you first removing the head and taking some measurements.

The reality is that the production tolerance between engines is pretty high. So without first checking your deck height its just guess work. Which leads me to my next point.

Don't do a two stage build. It'll cost you more time, money, and headaches. Do it properly once and be done with it. This way you'll have a much better plan than "how much should I shave?" and you'll achieve much better results. I too was considering a two phased rebuild but ultimately decided it was too much hassle and wasted money.

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'66 Dodge Dart

Measure first. Cut later.

It's important to find out where your starting. If you have high expectations for your build, don't cut corners.

There is a great deal of variation in manufacturing. We don't know what the dimensions are inside your engine, so all we could do is guess based on the average.

The processes are pretty easy to do, given that care in the measurement is expected. As you might read when searching on the subject, many of us have taken engines apart and found variations in deck of .040" That's huge. Depending on where your combustion chamber is, I've pulled stock heads with 54cc heads, and others with 61cc heads. It's too much to guess at.

We also don't know if somebody has been in there before. Did you or someone you know buy the car new? You have to know what's been done. It's not last years model, and may have been across the machine shop floor once or twice.
I'll croak one of these days, and my kids will sell my stuff off. Somebody is in for a big surprise when they pull the head off the Hooptie! When they get to the bottom end they won't know what to do.


With the right timing, you might be able to drum up some help from one of our members. Depends on where and when.

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Thanks for the info. Did not realize the tolerances were so varied, but not surprised since tolerances, fit and finish back then were pretty loose. A look at stock castings of the day proves that out.

Also a good idea since there is a tach mounted on the dash. Could be someone has "played" with the engine, even though it only has 84k on it and is otherwise umolested.

He must be looking at the set up for sale on ebag...

I continue to sell a "ready to install" Dutra manifold for $250.00 + shipping but that price does not include the cost to modify a factory exhaust manifold, to use as a rear section.
DD

Good to know that, Doc! How much to refit my back section, or sell me one already modified?

$130.00 + return shipping, if you can send me a good core.
Or see: ebag

Lol, I am actually watching that auction, but read the part about using the two manifolds together. Does that mean this manifold won't work with an aftermarket intake?

It works with an Offy bolted to it...it will work under a clifford hyperpak intake with a plate bolted to the top of it and sealed, if you have the stove milled down a bit and a plate welded to the top you can use a clifford shorty intake...

-D.Idiot

D.Idiot. Click on the link in his post. His ad says that that particular exhaust manifold should only be used with the single barrel intake it is currently attached to and being sold with. That is what I referring to.

I clicked the link...here are your options based on what intake you decide to get if you buy this particular exhaust manifold/stack:

Pull the 1 barrel intake off it and dump in garbage...you can then install a stock 2 barrel intake or an offy 4 barrel intake (the offy intake is the only one that bolts up to a stock exhaust manifold with the heat stove intact...use remflex gasket just in case your new manifold is a little "off".

If you go with a clifford shorty, it won't bolt up so you are stuck with dual duals, headers, or taking your modded rear manifold, milling the top of the stove down and capping it off with a plate welded too it...If it's a hyperpak intake (long ram) it will all go together, but the top needs to be capped off (which will not require the top of the stove to be milled to provide clearance to the bottom of the manifold...

The owner machine matched the stack, but there is absolutely no reason you can't use it with any setup per instructions I just provided and either milling the new stack (if an offy or super six), or just assembling and using a remflex gasket set.

-D.Idiot

I love the Hyper Pak for appearance, but it is expensive, needs special linkage and if it works like a tunnel ram ( which i suspect it does) it is not for torque but for 3000-6500 RPM HP. My original plan was to use a short 4bbl intake ( since nobody makes 2X2, which seems like it would be the perfect carb option for this engine). I am also wondering if larger 2bbls like a Holley 500 would bolt onto the super six manifold, and if a guy could make the linkage and choke work.

The idea of headers and short 4bbl sounded good, but I also understand that these engines have a hard time warming up (makes sense since the manifold is not located over the engine), which makes it sound better to use the Offy with the Dutra Dual with a choke or the super six intake with a 500 cfm Holley 2bbl.... And what is a "dual dual"? Is that like four guys pointing guns at each other?

So much to learn!