Rebuilt the 170 in the '60 Valiant Suburban (in way less time than the '63 225 - yeah )

It's running well, but hot. First time it ran well, it got up to operating temperature and started running top end of the Hot gauge within 7 minutes. Ironic, because this is one of primary causes for my rebuild. I guess the mountain of sludge in the water jackets wasn't the only reason it was running hot! Damn.

I have:

1. Poked around with the ignition timing as best I could considering I was NOT able to re-establish the relationship of #1 spark plug and TDC along with a makeshift 0° mark on the damper using the '63 bolt-on timing tab. Mainly because - and this is so frickin' stupid - I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how people rotate the engine in reverse when it's not apart! Using the crank bolt, I can rotate it one direction and stop #1 piston using a piston stop. But to use the bolt-on timing tab to establish a makeshift 0° mark, I would have to rotate the engine forward to stop, then in reverse until it stops again and I cannot - the crank bolt keeps unscrewing and how else do you rotate the engine in reverse?? Obviously, because I have no visible original timing marks on my timing chain cover, I am not able to see where the timing is in relation to the original TDC mark which is not helping anything.

2. Advanced the dizzy as far as the strap will allow me to advance it - which coincidentally or not seems to to be the only position where the engine will run well. Yesterday it took about 15 minutes before the engine reached the top end of Hot on the gauge. One I start retarding the dis, the engine starts sputtering and wants to stall. Maybe this distributor has springs or weights inside of it that need replacing? I don't know what wears out in a distributor....

3. Rebuilt the carb to specs. But I have noticed that even though I have bent the fast idle cam linkage as far as I should have to, the choke piston will close the top butterfly valve not quite far enough, to where the linkage will pull up the fast idle cam far enough to index the idle speed screw with the fast idle mark on the cam. When I manually index the throttle lever to the fast idle cam, engine starts, no problem. But it's currently indexing on the 2nd step of the cam, and that's not enough to start the engine cold.

4. Tried to tune the carb using the FSM procedures but something's not right. This carb is a '60 BBS Carter and unlike the '63's, there's only a single idle-speed screw, not a dual. Engine is not idling well at 550 rpm - it wants to sputter and die. Wondering if parts of the carb I can't tell are worn?

These are just some initial thoughts. More may be to come.

Did you remove all the spark plugs when trying to rotate the engine in reverse? Also, you can try rotating the engine using the fan, possibly in combination with a wrench on the crank.

As for the dizzy, if it starts stalling as you retard the timing I would advance it a bit more. There is a second bolt on the underside of the dizzy that can be used to adjust the timing. To reach it you'll likely need to pull the distributor all the way out so make sure it goes back in exactly as it came out.

Have you double-checked that none of the carb linkage is binding? Beyond that I think pictures will be super helpful here.

Seems like a fool's errand to attempt to fine-tune a carb without having the timing set properly first. Also, if the carb idles at 650RPM that should be fine, remember that although the FSM might recommend 550RPM as the desired idle those were different times with different gas.

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'66 Dodge Dart

I had crazy bad sludge in my engine's water jacket when I got it this spring. Flushed and flushed the bock and the rad. Still had a similar type of overheating afer a few weeks as you have (but it was a LOT slower coming up to hot than yours); temp would go up too far but not want to come down as it normally should. Took out the rad 2 days ago, and reverse flushed and forward flushed back and forth, using air pressure bursts along with the water to try to knock crud loose. It worked well; temp now runs rigth above the t-stat opening temp, even on the interstate, and cools down quickly if the temp rises a bit due to a long climb.

So it could be as simple as your rad being partially plugged, especially since you had a crud problem before. The bits get loose and float around and the narrow rad tubes are ideal spots for it to get caught. But your engine getting hot so fast makes me wonder if that is the cause.

I would get a cooling system pressure guage and check at the rad to see if you have pressure pulsing in the cooling system; could be a crack somewhere in head or block (were they pressure tested while torn down?), or perhaps just a bad head gasket. If this is getting so hot so fast at just idle, that is what I would suspect first.

As noted, you can use the fan belt to roate the engine backwards; press on the belt hard and it will 'catch', Try different spots on the belt; you will usually find one that 'grabs' most easily. You might also try a strap wrench on the crank pully (with the fan belt removed) with a fabric strap if you can find one long enough.

UPDATE

Found the original timing marks on the timing chain cover so now I don't have to monkey with the bolt-on indicator - that was problematic.

Here's the problem I'm running into. I've determined the likely culprit of my hot running is very likely the distributor which isn't advanced far enough and is actually operating retarded. I need to advance it more, and I can't. I've adjusted the strap to its maximum range of travel for advance and it's still not enough. Right now, at about 700-750 curb idle, I'm running between 0° to retarded 2.5° at the diz max-range of advance, when I need to be at around 5-7° advance to achieve a good normal operating temp.

Why would this be happening? Is there something that changes inside a distributor from use - parts becoming worn maybe - that cause you to need to advance the distributor further and further over time to make up for wear? Are there other internal adjustments that can be made so you're operating within the limits of strap travel and achieving the advance you need?

Wondering if this distributor is due for retirement and maybe I need to find a replacement. I would go HEI - worked wonderfully for the '63 Dart daily driver, but I'm trying to keep this one stock, since it's nowhere close to a daily. I have the original distributor from the '63 Dart before I replaced it and it was a known, working distributor. Maybe I should swap out to test?

You can adjust the plate's position by loosing the bolt under the distributor.

If both slots are at the end of their travel... you have to pull the distributor & move a tooth, then re-adjust the plate's position to get the adjustment range you need.

Having the correct 7/16 distributor wrench makes this job easier.
DD

Doug-thanks for chiming in. That makes a lot of sense. So that means if I'm not able to get the range I need currently and I need to advance the diz more, I would advance the diz one tooth and retard the plate range? Or vice versa? Do I just choose whatever works better or does one usually always work more favorably?

SOLVED

Running hot has now been solved. Thank you Doug Dutra, Dan Stern and all others who helped.

Don't know why I didn't realize it, but it made a difference to actually step ON THE PEDAL to set the choke as opposed to just manually using my hands to turn the throttle lever. Now the idle speed screw indexes to the fast idle cam mark when cold every time and the engine starts easily.

On the timing:

Advanced the diz one tooth forward, and re-calibrated the hold-down strap, as suggested to the needed range. Made all the difference. Now warms up to mid-range and stays at mid-range. This got accomplished by advancing it to about 7° and then tuning the carb to about 750rpm, curb idle. Starts and idles perfectly.

Hello Evan a long time!

One of our past club members had a similar issue - he discovered after lots of mucking about that the motor had heaps of sand in the block which was restricting the coolant flow (from memory sand may be used when the blocks are cast and is usually removed during production).

Regards, Peter from Downunder.