I’m in the process of addressing all kinds of issues that have surfaced over the years, so the front part of my 65 valiant is now completely dismantled. Among other things, I intend to rebuild of the original 170 and put it back in.

My question is about the cam. This is a daily driver, so I’m mostly looking for dependability and MPG. However, if there is a little bit more power to be had, I’m all for it. Is there any point in looking for something else or do I go with the SPD3 stock replacement cam? I can spend a little extra money on the cam, if it’s really worth it. There are countless messages about cams, but they are mostly about performance builds and/or heavier cars or trucks. And, most importantly, my understanding of cams is unfortunately next to zero.

I intend to have the head shaved a bit to bring up the static compression ratio (how much, 8.5?) and hopefully clean the bowls a little bit. Hardened exhaust seats and new guides for exhaust valves will be installed. The block will be bored (0.060). The engine has the normal Holley 1920 and Pertronics ignition.

On the 170 you need to be careful with measurements for shaving the head. The 225 can handle a lot more metal removal than the 170. So measure piston height and CC the cylinders before cutting. Make sure to account for the new head gasket thickness since it likely won't be the same.

Does the engine need bored? I am one of those people that don't like to bore unless it is required. If the cylinder walls are in good condition I personally would leave them alone. The 170 isn't quite as bad as the 225 for breathing issues. The same ports feed a 170 much better than the larger 225, so I wouldn't expect quite as much improvement from the larger bore. The .060 overbore will only gain you about 6 cubic inches.

Also be sure to calculate the piston clearance when selecting a cam. Once again the pistons in a 170 are much closer to the head than they are in the 225 and too much lift can cause contact.

You can actually/phsyically shave the head the same amount on a 170 as on the 225. The problem occurs with cam selection. With the 225 the pistons are down in the "hole" approx .170-.180
With the 170 the pistons are at the top of the block. So you lose about .170 of piston to valve clearance. So the more you mill, the the closer the valves are to the pistons, and smaller cam you need, if not running valve notches.

_________________
Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

I understand the open valve-piston clearance is much smaller on the 170 and I need to be careful with that. Will anything but the stock replacement cam increase the danger of contact? And is there any point in looking for anything but a stock replacement cam with this set up?

Best example I can use from personal experiance is: piston at top of block. Head milled .125 (that nume can vary depending on what the original head thickness). Old crane S-264 cam, (264* adv dur, 222* dur at .050, and 434 valve lift). The next larger Crane cam would not clear. That is with the "shim" type head gasket.

_________________
Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

Was that also with stock valve diameter or oversized valves?

Those numbers sound similar to the “mild” cams that I found on the Internet. But then again, I can compare the numbers but I have to admit I don’t really understand them.

The cam that was in the engine is quite pitted on some of the lobes and the place where the gas pump lever makes contact is badly worn, so I don’t want to put back the old cam. The only question is whether there is any point in considering anything but the stock replacement cam (SPD3).

If one buys a non--stock cam, are the bearings and lifters that are used with them still stock, or are they special (more expensive) also?

Dutra RV10 from Oregon Cams, their grind № 2106.

Avoid Comp cams unless you're a masochist.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

The cam bearings are the same, and can remain in the block if still in good condition.
The lifters should be replaced with new or reground lifters, any time the cam is replaced. Just use stock lifters.

_________________
Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

Good, I will be using new bearings and new lifters. I just wasn’t sure, if the stock ones were okay.

Thanks, I sent a message to Oregon cams about the Dutra RV10 (grind № 2106) asking for the price of the cam and whether they ship internationally.
I’m trying (not always very successfully…) to keep my masochistic tendencies in check, so I’ll stay away from comp cams. Sounds like you have had some bad experiences...

Took me many years, many cars, and many dollars to finally see my own folly. Read along, if you like, starting around chapter 14 of my Cars Of A Lifetime series.
Philosophically: no, I don't care to waste money or throw away the advantages of the Chrysler lifter diameter, etc, on a cam made with generic Chevrolet lobe profiles.

Practically: seen too many instances of "Hey, this Comp 252 cam is supposed to be a good torquer for daily driving, but my engine doesn't run any better than just okeh!" which cannot be improved because the problem is the camshaft.
Gather 'round, boys 'n' girls; it's Story Time with Uncle Dan!


In 2017 I sold a camshaft, valve springs, valve stem seals, and lifters to a guy in Finland. It worked out most economical to send the small parts and the cam in separate boxes. All documents were completed correctly and they, along with the address labels, were machine-printed for legibility. These were send via Priority Mail Express International. The small parts arrived in Finland in 7 days. The camshaft disappeared. Post office did their trace and found it had been sent to Ghana (um, because yeah, Ghana…Finland…easy mistake). They said they had to wait for the Ghanaian postal authority to do their own investigation. For some strange reason, they never heard back—probably because the Ghanaian postal authority's investigators are make-believe.

Okeh, fine, somewhere in Ghana somebody's using a custom-ground Slant-6 camshaft as a cricket bat or something.

So USPS sent me their forms № 2855 (insurance claim) and 3533 (postage refund) with instructions to take them to my local post office where the insurance form would be accepted and sent in for processing, and the refund would be issued on the spot.

That's not what happened, though. The counter clerk told me to meet the supervisor at the package pickup, a dutch door (bottom and top halves open separately). The manager came and opened the top half, and I presented the forms. He said "What are these?" I briefly explained. He said "There's no such thing as a postage refund. Postage is never refunded under any circumstances."

I said "Will you please read the letter from USPS? It's right there in the first paragraph." He looked at the letter and said "It doesn't say postage refund." I said "Please look at the first paragraph, it says 'file a request for a postage refund by completing the enclosed Form 3533, Application for Refund, which can be used to request disbursement for Priority Mail Express International refunds. This form must be submitted at your local post office.'" He said "The form itself doesn't say postage refund, it says 'application for refund of fees, products, and withdrawal of customer accounts'. We don't refund postage. Ever. If you bought insurance on your package, you can file a claim and you might get some money for the lost item, but we don't refund postage" and he tried to close the door in my face. My arm on the door ledge stopped him.

I said (without raising my voice) "Sir, for god's sake, please read the letter, it's right there in black and white." He responded by threatening to call the cops and have them haul me away for causing a disturbance. I said "We both know I'm not causing a disturbance. Since you won't honor the form, may I please know your name?" He said "No, you're not getting my name. Get your arm off the door ledge or I'm calling the police and having you banned from this post office. We're done here." I said "Sir, no, we really aren't. If you haven't encountered this form before, that's fine, but it is a USPS form, and it's got a USPS cover letter, and I'd like you to please check with whoever you need to check with about it."

He said "I never heard of it. My head clerk never heard of it. Are you slow? How many times do I have to tell you? WE DO NOT REFUND POSTAGE EVER. Now, is that clear, or do I need to make sure your insurance claim never gets processed?"

Dude's unhinged. I said "You're ordering me to leave, I'll leave, but I do need your name, please." He said "Dave." I said "Dave…?" He laughed and said "You're not gettin' my last name. Get your arm off the door ledge NOW." I said "I don't need your last name, how about your employee number?" He laughed again and said "Boy, you must really want me to call the cops and have you dragged outta here in handcuffs. NO, YOU CANNOT HAVE MY EMPLOYEE NUMBER!" and slammed the door.

I drove to a post office in the next ZIP code and they processed the forms and handed me the postage refund in about three minutes. Amazingly, the forms were really actually real things that really exist and mean what they say after all!

I wasn't done. I called the USPS International Research Group who had sent me the insurance and refund forms, told them what happened at the first post office, and the IRG clerk said she'd have a supervisor call that post office and then get back to me.

No getback was forthcoming, so I called IRG again. Clerk said he didn't know anything about a supervisor calling local post offices, but that I should contact the Consumer Affairs office. So I did, gave a description of events, and they said someone would call me back.

Couple hours later I got a callback: the station manager at the post office where supervisor Dave threatened me would be happy to meet with me there at 2pm to get it all taken care of.

Station manager turned out to be a cool lady with long hair, ink, and rings everywhere. Went in her office and had a really excellent talk with lots of smiling and laughing. She apologized right off the bat for Dave's tantrum; I thanked her and told her I was sorry she was put in the position of having to apologize for someone else's behaviour, which is never any fun.

She said, just the day before she'd seen and heard Dave mistreating another customer and had to step in, order Dave away from the counter, and help the customer herself. "Wow," I said. "I mean, I guess he must've been having a really bad day, and I don't usually wish that on anyone, but at the same time…!". She said "Nnnno, he wasn't having a bad day. His people skills are…well…".

I said "Oh. Well, I'm thinking maybe not so much with the customer contact for Dave." She said "I'm thinking maybe not so much with the Dave."

She told me it was her second day at that post office, so cross our fingers that her administrative permissions were up and working, took my insurance form and me back out to the service desk and had the clerk enter the info and prep the money order, then typed in her auth code, stepped back and crossed her fingers. Code accepted, money order issued: bling, blong.

I had another cam ground, sent it, and it arrived in Finland in 7 days. Nine months later, the first camshaft landed on my own doorstep in fine condition with no explanation.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.