Hello:

Working on the 1967 Valiant 4 door that started life as a manual steering car.

It was converted to Power Steering using the correct era power steering column and steering box. The pump appears to be an early 70s Saginaw-style pump.

The Valiant has never had a great steering feel—poor return, some wander at higher speed…not nearly as good as my stock 68 Barracuda–which would be a likely comparison.

I am about to rebuild the front end and convert from the stock 9in drums to 73-down style disc brakes and would like to revisit the steering during the project.


Questions:

Are the manual steering and power steering center drag links different?

Are the 72-pre center links different from the 73-down?

If going to 73-down disc brakes—what tie rods, pitman, idler should be used here…? The 72-pre or the 73-down?

Planned to rebuild a set 73-down stock Upper Control Arms with the large upper ball joint—unless a big advantage to the aftermarket style tubular / adjustable style? If a stock non-performance car, what would the benefit of new after market designs be?

This is a non-rusty, beat up, stock survivor of a car—something that I would like to make more drive able on the modern road….Looking mostly to use stock components that I have unless any good recommendations for other


Thanks!

Align the '67 to have at least as much positive caster as called for in the FSM for power-steer cars (the nonpower-steer cars had negative caster so that your grandmother and mine could manage to park the car).

Even once you do that, the car will still have no roadfeel through the steering wheel, and it'll still be wandery at speed, and you'll still have a bunch of tension in your shoulders and upper arms after a long drive from trying to keep the car going straight ahead without much of any self-centring action. That is how these cars were, in stock form, with power steer.

If you want to actually fix the problem instead of trying to paint over it with caster settings, get a steering gear ("steering box") from Steer & Gear or Firm Feel, set up with close tolerances and the stiffer reaction rings Chrysler saw fit to put only in police cars for a bunch of years. Then you'll have what you actually want (and your '68 will suddenly feel all kinds of sloppy).
One-year-only '67 pitman and idler arms, gack. Look into converting to the '68-'72 (or, better, '73-'76) setup, most readily achieved with a K-frame swap.
'72-down. Good brakes, but a pain to find good parts for any more. You might reconsider and go with the '73-up A-F-M-J-body discs, which are a lot easier to get good parts for, in greater variety, and are less prone to certain kinds of problems. This would mean 4-1/2" wheel bolt pattern up front, though, so you'd need to cope with that onehow or another.

There is no difference in centre link between power and nonpower steering.
I don't think there is a difference between '72-down and '73-up, but double check on that; I may be misremembering.
You use the pitman and idler arms suitable for your steering box and K-frame. The '72-down A & B body steering boxes have a smaller-diameter splined output shaft than the '73-up, and the K-frame groups are '67-only, '68-'72, '73-'76.
'72-down upper control arms use the small upper ball joint. '73-up upper control arms use the large one.
More money in the cash register of whoever sold it to you. In my experience…that's all.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

What Dan said. There are much better alignment settings than the FSM states. What tires/wheels are you running or do you plan to run?

I would not bother with tubular upper arms. IIRC, the 73-up K-frame, pitman/idler, and drag link are different than 72-down. Either will work, and best to get away from the 67 K and pitman/idler. 68-72 easier because it will use the same motor mounts/brackets you have, although many folks like the "captured" spool motor mounts on 73-76.

If you really want road feel, switch to manual steering, but otherwise do what Dan said and get a firmer box. Borgerson makes a kit with a more modern power box that apparently works great.

What is your budget?

Lou

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Hello:

Here are some answers to the questions posed by Dan and Lou:

First--thank you for the clarification that the center drag link is the same for manual/power. This was my concern, given the conversion.

I am not looking to spend a ton of money--but I am willing to spend what is needed to make the car better.

I did not realize that 67 was a one year only Idler arm. (thanks Dan!) but likely NOT looking to do a K-frame swap at this time--but i will keep this in mind for future plans with this car.

To clarify, I will be moving the car to the LBP when I do the disc swap and I intend to use the stock 73-Up style disc brakes with a set of 79 Volare spindles obtained from Greg O.

I have a 7.25 LBP rear in the garage or I may use the LBP conversion axles from Dr. Diff. I used those on the Barracuda with great results. The current rear gear is a nice 2.94.

Wheels/tires will either be 14in Mopar Road Wheels or 15in Mopar steelies.

Thanks for the input and confirming my thought that the tubular UCAs are not worth it and the ones I removed from my 73 will be rebuilt.

The box that is on the car was a rebuild---but not one that works to firm up the steering...so I may look at Firm Feel....Does anyone have any experience with the new Lares Boxes? https://www.larescorp.com/Part/11033

thanks

I think the Lares stuff is all chinese made and only perhaps has decent quality, and very likely not made for handling/performance/feel in any way. Firm Feel is a great outfit, although not cheap.

If you are going for better handling, you might use offset UCA bushings to get more positive caster. I have found +2 or +4 degree positive caster works great, but too much (above +5 or 6) can give unpredictable handling in extreme situations You can get something like +2 caster with stock UCAs and bushings, assuming not significant wrecks are in your car's past. +2 works well too. Set camber to -0.5-0.8 and toe to 1/16-1/8" in. With power steering, these settings will not affect steering effort noticeably and will only improve handling. With manual steering (always my choice), you feel a difference in effort, but it's not bad on a light car.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

The Chrysler box works great when configured and built thoughtfully. I don't see the attraction of high-dollar aftermarket stuff with zero parts and service support once the maker discontinues the product or goes out of business.

Oh, and while Richard Ehrenberg's Mopar Action articles on A-body steering upgrades contain a lot of good ideas, they also contain crummy ones (example: fiddling with the power steering pump to reduce its output doesn't really improve the steering feel, but does make pump-catch much more likely – that's when you spin the steering wheel faster than the pump can keep up with, which feels like you suddenly hit a block/wall in the steering. It's dangerous, not fun).

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I’ve read about adding washers to reduce the pressure output of the pump, but never tried it.

If I change out the box, it will be with a Firm Feel. They have great customer service and are extremely knowledgeable.

I’ve been able to track down the 67 idler
https://www.kanter.com/products/steerin ... 3738162450
—-however the Moog Pitman arm—part K7074–seems to list years 67-72?

Thanks for the recommended alignment specs. I’m sure that will help from whatever it’s at now.

There has to be at least one non-Junk '72-'75 k Frame with Slant 6 mounts in it over at Dad's Place before it goes to U pull n Pay.

Come to think of it...

Check on the Maroon'74 Swinger that Was hauled over there last year. It has no Engine, and Front susp Was already disconnected It would be an easy Zip off of the 4 7/8 or 15/16" Bolts and you can have a '74 Spool moutnt slant6 k frame for your car.

I know a guy who knows a guy that knows a guy that can do that swap.

Greg

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Looks like the idler arm is one-year-only; pitman arm is '67-'72, per Firm Feel.

While we're at it: do this; if the steering gearbox adjustment(s) is/are loose, it'll aggravate the wandery/no-centre feeling.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Late-late last night, I recalled enough of this to go finding it today, in an old issue of Slant-6 News.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Greg--Went to the nearby UPull on a nice 14 degree day to check out the potential K-frame on the maroon 74 Dart...to find that someone already cut out the driver side spool mount.

Dan--The tech tip is great info. I am considering have a core power steering unit rebuilt by these guys....https://www.powerbrakex-change.com//

They are local for me and while I've never had work done here...I did visit the shop once and was impressed by the knowledge of the owners and left with a good impression. This is the type of shop that seems to be run by folks that care about doing the work correctly. Pricing seems to be more reasonable too--with no shipping costs.

I would need to speak with them and see if they are willing to do the upgrades listed in the info Dan provided in order to build a better unit.

I was also curious to investigate this shop because when I upgrade the steering in one, Ill likely want to do the same to the 68 and 73......

Any feedback if someone knows/has experience with them would be helpful.

Otherwise, I think the Firm Feel may be the best option.

Check pricing from Steer & Gear, too, and talk to Red Head Steering – both of those are reputable outfits.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Drats on the K Frame, There are some more at Dad's Shop - Not sure of the rustiness of them, however. There is likely one in a 74 Duster and in the 73 Dart Next to it.
Neither have engines in them.

I almost sent my van's power booster to that guy in Pittsburgh for a rebuild, but I was able to grab one for a '77-'78 Van at the scrapyard that worked with no vacuum leaks. He seems well-recommended and knowledgeable. I would not hesitate to use him if he would do the mods you want. He may just rebuild it to stock only, however.


That Red '74 Duster must be long gone over there by now at the U-Pull-N-Pay. We hauled that one off maybe 4-5 years ago.

Greg

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