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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:38 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 5:09 am
Posts: 1167
Location: Troy, Texas
Car Model:
Aaron and I installed the instrument cluster into his Dart Sport today. After working out the kinks with some grounding problems, burned out bulbs, and blown fuses, we are still left with the following condition:

WITH KEY "OFF" AND HEADLIGHT SWITCH "IN":
Brake lights work when pedal depressed
Trunk light on with deck lid up
Light on when glove box door opened
Cigarette lighter element heats up
Dome light on BRIGHT when door opened
Dome light on DIM if headlight switch is turned
Courtesy/Map light only comes on ( VERY DIM) if dome light on with headlight switch, it won't come on simply using its own toggle switch

WITH KEY "OFF" AND HEADLIGHT SWITCH PULLED TO 1st POSITION:
All four side markers on
Front and rear parking/tail lights on
Ash tray light on
Heater - A/C control light on
Gear selection indicator light on
No instrument panel lights on
(Forgot to check license plate light or back-up lights)

WITH KEY "OFF" AND HEADLIGHT SWITCH PULLED TO 2nd POSITION:
No change in the above
Headlights on
Foot dimmer switch works properly with headlights

WITH KEY IN "ACC" OR "ON" POSITION:
Turn signals work properly
Emergency hazard lights work properly (need to check bulb next to switch)
All three wiper speeds work
All three fan speeds work
(Don't have the radio installed to check it)

Basically, everything seems to work OK except the map light and the instrument panel lights. I will say that the instrument panel acted weirdly earlier today. We had the panel only hooked up to the ammeter wires and the headlight switch, not the wiper switch. We were dealing with tail light grounding problems, etc. and noticed the turn signal arrows, high beam indicator light and all panel lights were on but VERRRRRY DIM. When I pressed the floor dimmer switch to change to high beam, the indicator light went out. When I switched to low beam, the indicator light came on. The "OIL" and "BRAKE" lights came on when the key was turned to "ACC" or "ON".

I might have fixed some of these problems by finding what I think might have been a ground wire disconnected, when we put the panel in correctly. Now, with the panel installed in its proper place and the wiper switch plugged in, none of the panel lights come on for any reason.

See if you can decipher this and come to any conclusion. Is it something as simple as a missing ground wire, or maybe the 5v instrument panel voltage limiter is kaput. I appreciate any input you may have.

Thanks much,
Jerry

_________________
There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance is not knowing any better.
Stupidity is knowing, yet doing it anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:08 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24805
Location: North America
Car Model:
Almost certainly grounds-related. Pretty sure your '74 instrument cluster won't ground if it's not fully hooked up *AND* installed. Result will be as described, multiple indicators on dimly/other weird behaviour.

No instrument panel illumination + funky map/dome behaviour suggests either a faulty headlamp switch *or* a wiring problem. Change the switch and pray.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:12 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:10 am
Posts: 23
Location: Moab UT
Car Model:
(Replies interspersed)
Quote:
Aaron and I installed the instrument cluster into his Dart Sport today. After working out the kinks with some grounding problems, burned out bulbs, and blown fuses, we are still left with the following condition:

WITH KEY "OFF" AND HEADLIGHT SWITCH "IN":
Brake lights work when pedal depressed

(normal, safety feature)

Trunk light on with deck lid up

(normal)

Light on when glove box door opened

(normal)

Cigarette lighter element heats up

(normal)

Dome light on BRIGHT when door opened

(normal)

Dome light on DIM if headlight switch is turned

(Headlights take a lot of amps, probably normal, especially if battery charge is down a bit)

Courtesy/Map light only comes on ( VERY DIM) if dome light on with headlight switch, it won't come on simply using its own toggle switch

(bad switch or miswired, low battery)

WITH KEY "OFF" AND HEADLIGHT SWITCH PULLED TO 1st POSITION:
All four side markers on

(Normal)

Front and rear parking/tail lights on

(Normal)

Ash tray light on

(normal)

Heater - A/C control light on

(normal)

Gear selection indicator light on

(normal)

No instrument panel lights on

[[Check instrument light dimmer control (rotate knob)]]

(Forgot to check license plate light or back-up lights)

(Back-up lights only in "run" and "acc" switch positions)

WITH KEY "OFF" AND HEADLIGHT SWITCH PULLED TO 2nd POSITION:
No change in the above
Headlights on
Foot dimmer switch works properly with headlights

(Normal)

WITH KEY IN "ACC" OR "ON" POSITION:
Turn signals work properly

(Normal)

Emergency hazard lights work properly (need to check bulb next to switch)

(should work with key "off" / headlight switch "off")

All three wiper speeds work
All three fan speeds work
(Don't have the radio installed to check it)

(normal)

Basically, everything seems to work OK except the map light and the instrument panel lights. I will say that the instrument panel acted weirdly earlier today. We had the panel only hooked up to the ammeter wires and the headlight switch, not the wiper switch. We were dealing with tail light grounding problems, etc. and noticed the turn signal arrows, high beam indicator light and all panel lights were on but VERRRRRY DIM. When I pressed the floor dimmer switch to change to high beam, the indicator light went out. When I switched to low beam, the indicator light came on. The "OIL" and "BRAKE" lights came on when the key was turned to "ACC" or "ON".

(Lack of circuit board ground to dash framework.)

I might have fixed some of these problems by finding what I think might have been a ground wire disconnected, when we put the panel in correctly. Now, with the panel installed in its proper place and the wiper switch plugged in, none of the panel lights come on for any reason.

See if you can decipher this and come to any conclusion. Is it something as simple as a missing ground wire, or maybe the 5v instrument panel voltage limiter is kaput. I appreciate any input you may have.

The factory 5V limiter is prone to failure. There once was a diagram in Mopar Action to make a solid state regulator to replace it, but I don't have it any more.

Thanks much,
Jerry
Hope this helps.

Budd


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 Post subject: Made some good progress
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:27 pm 
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Turbo EFI
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 5:09 am
Posts: 1167
Location: Troy, Texas
Car Model:
Man, is my back aching. I've spent hours lying on my back in the floor of Aaron's car pondering this...trying that. Finally, everything electrical on the car works correctly, except the instrument panel lights. Well... actually, the map light is still acting goofy, but I'll figure it out eventually.

Would the voltage limiter on the instrument cluster cause the lights to not burn, or is it still pointing to a bad switch?

Can either or both of these items be obtained at the local Dodge parts house, or maybe NAPA?

Thanks for all the help,
Jerry

_________________
There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance is not knowing any better.
Stupidity is knowing, yet doing it anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:17 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:09 pm
Posts: 2946
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Car Model: 1962 Plymouth Valiant Signet
The lights should not be affected by the instrument cluster regulator, as far as I know that feeds only the gauges. Power for the instrument lights comes through the dimmer pot on the headlamp switch.

_________________
David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:34 am 
Offline
Turbo EFI
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 5:09 am
Posts: 1167
Location: Troy, Texas
Car Model:
Well then, if that's the case, it looks like a new headlight switch is in order.
I do have to check the ground one last time, now that everything is else is installed and working. And I'm sure a new switch now will save headaches later.

Thanks for the replies,
Jerry

_________________
There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance is not knowing any better.
Stupidity is knowing, yet doing it anyway.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:22 am 
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Turbo EFI
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 5:09 am
Posts: 1167
Location: Troy, Texas
Car Model:
I'm going to mention this only once, and then there shall be no more discussion on this subject. I told Aaron that I was going to place all the blame on him, to save face for myself, but I realized that would not be right. I shouldn't do that to my son.

As you know, I have been looking for a solution to an electrical "problem" for several days, since we installed the instrument cluster. I even bought a new headlight switch to see if it might help. I traced out wires, cleaned connections, checked fuses, and replaced bulbs until I was at my wit's end.

Last night, Aaron wanted to try the new switch and see if we could get the cluster lights working. To swing the cluster out to get to the headlight switch Aaron disconnected the wiper switch. As I pulled the panel forward to clear the steering column, he asked me, "Did you disconnect this?" I looked back there to see what he was pointing at, and you guessed it......
Do I need to say more? Should I fess up to my complete and total stupidity?

OK, but I only do this for the sake of those who follow after me with instrument panel "electrical problems". You young 'uns learn from my mistake and pass this knowledge on to your offspring:

YOU HAVE TO PLUG THE HARNESS CONNECTOR TO THE BACK OF THE PANEL FOR IT TO WORK.

Now, before you write me off as a world class retard, realize that we really did have some grounding problems and burned bulbs giving us fits, but we had the instrument cluster hanging off the left side of the steering column by its wires. Once we had all the bulbs replaced and connections made, we disconnected the panel to reposition it in its proper location to hook up and test the wiper motor and switch. At that moment is when I/we made our fatal mistake. We were trying so hard to carefully get the cluster tucked up behind the column without scratching our new paint job that the main connection to the circuit board was overlooked.

It was an honest mistake that any one of you could have made (and possibly have). So, in the spirit of poking fun at me, go ahead and take your best shot, I deserve this one. The good thing is, now we can finish installing the rest of the interior and get the car ready for the road.

Jerry

_________________
There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance is not knowing any better.
Stupidity is knowing, yet doing it anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:19 am 
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SL6 Racer & Moderator
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:06 pm
Posts: 8978
Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
Car Model:
Been there, done that. Probably most every one , here, also. I have had it happen on customers vehicles, after dash R&R for A/C work. Forget to plug in a connector, and I am supposed to be a profesional. :oops:

_________________
Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:30 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 8:38 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Car Model:
AHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! *gasp* HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA! uh...heh...aheheh...ahhh... ahem. Yeah, I've done that. And much, much worse. Let's see if I can recount some of my most hilarious forays into automotive dumb-assery...

1. I have spent over an hour trying to figure out what I could possibly have done wrong when installing a voltage regulator to make my ignition not work, only to find (after tracing wires, replacing components, you name it) that I had forgotten to reconnect the battery. 8)

2. I replaced all four shocks, the rear springs, AND the two of the NEW shocks, only to find that all you have to do to fix that asemetrical stance problem is to adjust both torsion bars equally. :cry:

3. Basically same as number one, but it was out of Park.

4. Word of advice, if about to take that first test drive and you notice four stumpy little bolts that havent made it back into your car, DO NOT assume that they're just left over. Also, DO NOT take your brother's word for it if he tells you that he remembered to bolt up the torque coverter...especially if you happen to see four stumpy little bolts that haven't made it back into the car...see where I'm going here, kids? :x

feel better now?

-josh

_________________
64 Dart 170 /6


Last edited by Josh on Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:34 am 
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Turbo EFI
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 5:09 am
Posts: 1167
Location: Troy, Texas
Car Model:
Yes, much better. :D

I was hoping that my confession of stupidity would encourage others to reveal similar lapses in cranial function. You did not let me down.

If it hasn't been done before, maybe we should start a new thread on the pitfalls and follies we all have encountered. You know, for the sake of the children.

Jerry

_________________
There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance is not knowing any better.
Stupidity is knowing, yet doing it anyway.


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