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oil and addatives
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18272		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  Joshie225 [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:30 am ]
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so what are the benefits of diesel oil?.. I thought diesel oil was for diesel engines...
Diesel oil still has the zinc that has largely been removed from gasoline engine oils. Zinc is an extreme pressure/ant-scuff agent that is very good for sliding contact such as between flat tappets and cam lobes. Newer gas engines no longer need the zinc as they all have roller lifters. GM EOS (engine oil supplement) is meant for use in breaking in flat tappet cams and has a lot of zinc. People have been turning to EOS to get their zinc. I just use a diesel rated oil.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:39 am ]
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Diesel oil still has the zinc that has largely been removed from gasoline engine oils. Zinc is an extreme pressure/ant-scuff agent that is very good for sliding contact such as between flat tappets and cam lobes. Newer gas engines no longer need the zinc as they all have roller lifters.
Exactly right. This is also a major difference between regular Mobil-1 (Zinc recently removed) and Mobil-1 Extended Performance (still has Zinc).
Author:  jpope [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:53 am ]
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While we're on the topic. I see that alot of people don't like fram filters. I've never had any problems with them. How are the wix filters better and what makes the frams junk?
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:20 am ]
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While we're on the topic. I see that alot of people don't like fram filters. I've never had any problems with them. How are the wix filters better and what makes the frams junk?
Compared to better brands, Frams are made of poor-quality materials, with sloppy assembly quality. Here is a very good comparative analysis. Frams have also caused numerous systematic problems over the years, usually when whoever owns the Fram brand at the moment decides a particular filter can be made just that little bit too much cheaper. Burst filter cans (VWs and various other makes), filter elements too short blocking the oil inlet pipe and starving the bearings, failing the engine (Chrysler 2.2/2.5 and then, a decade later, Cummins diesels in Dodge Rams), etc. The problem is widely enough distributed that some race sanctioning bodies do not permit Fram filters (they don't want to oil down the track).

Is it possible to use Fram filters for a long time and never have a problem (that you know of)? Sure. Same as it's possible to drive for years without a seatbelt and remain alive and keep all your arms, legs, fingers, toes and eyes. But, given the wide availability of much better filters for comparable money, there's no good reason to use Frams.
Author:  jpope [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:39 am ]
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Thanks Dan. Guess it is silly to use a cheap oil filter when I wouldn't even consider using a cheap oil. [/quote]
Author:  CStryker [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:10 pm ]
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Is it possible to use Fram filters for a long time and never have a problem (that you know of)? Sure. Same as it's possible to drive for years without a seatbelt and remain alive and keep all your arms, legs, fingers, toes and eyes. But, given the wide availability of much better filters for comparable money, there's no good reason to use Frams.
You've met my father, haven't you? He just turned over 300K in his '85 Ram w/ the 318 that had a Fram go on the day the factory one came off, and in which the seatbelts have probably been used all of five times.

BTW Dan, if most oil is lackinging in zinc, does that mean you actually /would/ reccomend putting in a zinc additive? (i.e. something that is not motor oil?)
Author:  Ice Titan [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:32 pm ]
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How about mixing brands and viscosity ratings? I know not to do it, but I'm not entirely sure why.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:41 pm ]
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He just turned over 300K in his '85 Ram w/ the 318 that had a Fram go on the day the factory one came off, and in which the seatbelts have probably been used all of five times.
There're people who smoke 2 packs a day from the time they're 12 until the time they die at age 97 or something, too...but it's not good odds! :shock:
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BTW Dan, if most oil is lackinging in zinc, does that mean you actually /would/ reccomend putting in a zinc additive? (i.e. something that is not motor oil?)
Nope. You'll add too much or too little, and almost certainly screw up the oil's existing additive chemistry. Every engine oil engineer I have ever read or heard on the subject practically begs and pleads with the world at large not to add anything to engine oil. You basically never make it better and run the real risk of making it significantly worse.
Author:  Slant n' Rant [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:15 pm ]
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which the seatbelts have probably been used all of five times.)
I for one wouldn't be talking to you kind folks had I NOT worn one more than five times (and it wasn't my fault all five times)
Author:  Slant n' Rant [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:29 pm ]
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Nope. You'll add too much or too little, and almost certainly screw up the oil's existing additive chemistry. Every engine oil engineer I have ever read or heard on the subject practically begs and pleads with the world at large not to add anything to engine oil. You basically never make it better and run the real risk of making it significantly worse.
Seems like alot of people 'gripe and moan' about not wanting to use synthetics because they are expensive and then end up spending more by using additives anyways. If you really want to improve your lubrication to the next higher step go synthetic or diesel and be done. Keep it simple, Youll go nuts trying one product this oil change and trying another at the next until you forget what you even put in there in the first place :lol: witches' brew :twisted:
Author:  Draco_Scaline [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:11 pm ]
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so which would i be better of with? diesel or mobil-1 extended life? and is that mobile synthetic ?

any thought on 'engine flush' products?
Author:  CStryker [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:20 pm ]
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I used a "5 minute engine flush" one time, because my oil was always terribly dirty, even right after I poured it in. A few weeks later I started using a quart of oil every 600 miles. But dang if it didn't stay clean. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not, but if I was gonna do it all over again, I would definetily use the technique Dan posted previously.

As for the oil, if you've got cash you're willing to part w/ and and engine you wanna baby, go for the Mobil 1 extended. (That's what I run now, along w/ my Wix filter. And yes, it's synthetic.) If you just want to take care of an otherwise solid vehicle, I'd run the diesel. (That's what I ran in my old engine.)

And for the record, I /always/ wear my seatbelt, and the zinc additive comment was mainly in jest.
Author:  Slant n' Rant [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:00 pm ]
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Ill admit the EOS zinc additive had me curious too before you inquired about it. (at least it has a specific purpose) Yes Im a recovered additive-aholic but have been 'clean' for five years now since I started using synthetics :D
Author:  Jeb [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:48 pm ]
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I used a "5 minute engine flush" one time, because my oil was always terribly dirty, even right after I poured it in. A few weeks later I started using a quart of oil every 600 miles. But dang if it didn't stay clean. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not, but if I was gonna do .
I one time used one of those on my Duster and it started to burn oil also. I ran it hard on the freeway a couple of times for a few hours straight and it straightened out. It will still do the same thing if I let it sit up for a 4-5 weeks. I added some STP at my last oil change and it solved that problem.
Author:  Draco_Scaline [ Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:11 am ]
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well I went to the store today to price oil...and wow, can't aford mobile one extended right now :shock:.. not a chead arse but think I could better spend my money ...so guess I'll go with the diesel.

anyway around this "oatmeal in the crank case at high way speeds" thing?
would using sae 30 Rotella,delo work..or maybe just a difrent grade then 15w-40? I live in georgia so it gets pretty cold in the winter...

also any thoughts on syth. disel oils? do they still have the zinc or what?
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