Slant *        6        Forum
Home Home Home
The Place to Go for Slant Six Info!
Click here to help support the Slant Six Forum!
It is currently Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:26 am

All times are UTC-08:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Snake Oil
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 5:48 pm 
Offline
TBI Slant 6
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:50 am
Posts: 154
Location: Raleigh, NC
Car Model:
I have come to be skeptical of seemingly simple, yet profoundly revolutionary changes offered for the incredibly low price of $9.95, in 100 easy payments. This link is the latest I have come across.
I told the person who linked to it that all the examples listed were unscientific. The key to this new technology seems to be turbulence. Unlike the Tornados in the airbox, this design is in the combustion chamber and requires no new 'part' to install. Granted pulling the head and milling it is more invasive and costly than putting a steel wing infront of your air filter.
BUT, I am not a mechanic. I am not an automotie engineer. I can almost hear Dan saying that these people have fooled themselves into thinking there is an improvement. And if there is, more than likely it is because of some previously unknown problem being fixed in the process.
While the article is mainly about the new design, I do agree with the reasoning behind modifying older vehicles. Since not everyone can go out and spend $40,000 on a new hybrid, even if the infrastructure were there, it would be of greater benefit to figure out how to make current vehicles more efficient.
What do you guys think? Are the current spec's the limit of what even our cars and trucks are capable of? Remember, there is a cost to benefit ratio involved. Is it possible that a magic black box under the hood could make things better?

_________________
The Old Goat '83 D150 225-2

AKA Ice Titan


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 5:58 pm 
Offline
Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 6170
Location: So California
Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
With an older car that doesn't have emission controls, there's probably some things you could do to get better mileage in a black box sort of arrangement as you don't have to worry about meeting emissions..........

But I see the magic box being a well thought out and tested (lots of time) fuel injection,ignition setup with your own custom ignition maps and fuel maps.......

_________________
Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

8)


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 6:19 pm 
Offline
Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 23548
Location: North America
Car Model:
Pretty sure this nutty notion of adding grooves to the combustion chamber to get amazing, great improvements in power, mileage and the taste of your morning coffee has been covered on this board sometime in the last 18 months (can't find it, though). You're right, it's one of those things that sounds deliciously believable until you start looking at the science (or lack of science!) behind it.

If you read these alleged dyno tests, the same thing is wrong with all of them: They added these "miracle" grooves to the combustion chamber (and rebuilt the engine, and increased the compression, and modified the spark advance curves), and WOW, LOOK AT THE HUGE IMPROVEMENT FROM GROOVING THE COMBUSTION CHAMBERS!!! Yeah, right. :roll:

Grooves of the type advocated would fill up rapidly with carbon, rendering them useless at best. This falls into the category of "If it worked even a fraction as well as claimed, the automakers would've all been doing it for the last 40 years".

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Image


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 6:33 pm 
Offline
Turbo Slant 6
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:33 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Rolla, MO
Car Model:
Actually, it seems to me that it could have some negative effects. Aside from weakening the combusture chamber some (probalby not an issue) it also seems that it would create some hotspots along the sharp edges, causing detonation. (I don't know enough about thermo yet to say for sure, but it would seem this could be a problem...)


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 6:38 pm 
Offline
TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:13 pm
Posts: 248
Car Model:
There's always room for improvement of anything because nothing is perfect in the first place.When your talking about reshaping or manipulating prime engine components they might have something in theory at least and not just an additive you add to your gas. The history of hotrodding relys on making stock go faster/better. I looks like they're playing that field but instead of promising increased horsepower they're exaggerating fuel economy to win attention. times have changed. I am skeptical of that much better mileage they're making it sound like its the difference between a flathead and a hemi chamber improvement. Yes, on the drag strip everything counts, on the street, however, its a scratch on your head. I bet you Dan's suggestion with the autolite 985 spark plugs would give better improvement in performance than doing that times three because the theory is more simple and direct.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:07 pm 
Offline
Supercharged
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:09 pm
Posts: 2939
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Car Model: 1962 Plymouth Valiant Signet
The more expensive fuel gets the more these hare-brained schemes will come out of the woodwork. If something sounds too good to be true then you can be pretty sure it's probably as phony as a 3 dollar bill. Especially in modern computer controlled engines, but even in their immediate predecessors such as the slant, there just isn't that much left over to be recovered as usable energy.

The statement that we could eliminate the need for middle east oil with the savings is laughable; for that to be true this "invention" would have to increase fuel effieciency by well over 100% - utter nonsense.

_________________
David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:15 pm 
Offline
Board Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:20 am
Posts: 2011
Location: Argentina
Car Model:
this topic came up months ago when we were talking about FISH(y) carbs

Shhht! what are those black coat guys doing in my porche? And more importantly... how come I never obtain 100 mpg after they were here?

_________________
Juan Ignacio Caino

Please use e-mail button istead of PM'ing. I do log in sometimes but I'll be answering quicker thru e-mail.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:20 pm 
Offline
TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:13 pm
Posts: 248
Car Model:
That 'black magic box' under the hood you refer to, I have one of those! Its called lean burn Yikes! :D
You install one and watch your mileage magically disappear!


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:26 pm 
Offline
TBI Slant 6
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:50 am
Posts: 154
Location: Raleigh, NC
Car Model:
I did just the opposite. I took one off and it went up.

_________________
The Old Goat '83 D150 225-2



AKA Ice Titan


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:27 pm 
Offline
Supercharged
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 7636
Location: SW Washington
Car Model: 1965 Plymouth Barracuda, 1954 Dodge C1-B8
Adding a fuel shear to break up wet flow on the port walls can have a positive effect on power and economy. Don't expect more than a few percent improvement in either. Polishing the combustion chamber has merit as it reduces the surface area of the chamber and top of the piston (bottom of the chamber) and reflects heat back into the gasses that expand and push the piston downward, but again the improvements are small. Quench combustion chambers greatest benefit is in allowing higher compression ratios which makes it an indirect aid to power and economy.

In reading over the site in question I'm having trouble finding good objective data. Too many variables are being changed at a time rendering the tests nearly worthless.

This makes for good reading----> http://www.theoldone.com/
His stuff is backed up by race records and products you can actually buy.

_________________
Joshua


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 3:48 pm 
Offline
TBI Slant 6
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:57 pm
Posts: 207
Location: yakima wa
Car Model:
so if i take a cie grinder and slice a bunch of slots in my cyl head then ill get more power? i think not :roll:

_________________
1975 Plymouth Duster,225/6 2bbl. and duels, 904, 7 1/4
1986 Dodge Charger Shelby, 2.2 Turbo I, A525


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 10:32 pm 
Offline
Board Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2003 2:37 pm
Posts: 4121
Location: CA
Car Model:
SlantSixDan wrote:
Pretty sure this nutty notion of adding grooves to the combustion chamber to get amazing, great improvements in power, mileage and the taste of your morning coffee has been covered on this board sometime in the last 18 months (can't find it, though).


Here ya go -
http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=57443


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC-08:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited