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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2001 11:41 am 
I did a search here on this, but didn't find the answers I was looking for.
Here's the setup: My new "Screamin' Six" engine, 450 Holley mechanical secondary, #66 jets in the primaries and a #67 jet equivalent metering plate (#9) in the secondaries. Carb is on an Offenhauser aluminum intake, mounted front to rear, with the throttle linkage on the drivers' side, just like a stock BBD. MP 268 cam (runs nice, not too much for a street engine) with 18/23 hot lash. Autolite 26 plugs. MEASURED and CC'D 9.04:1 compression ratio, with compression test numbers all between 190-200 psi.

Here's what the plugs looked like, both for the side electrode and insulator. I had the PCV routed to manifold vaccum, but after I saw #6 plug, I rerouted it to the air cleaner.

#1. Ins.-brown , elec.-black
#2. Ins.-brown/tan , elec.-brown
#3. Ins.-tan , elec.-brown/black
#4. Ins.-white , elec.-tan
#5. Ins.-white , elec.-tan
#6. Ins.-black , elec.-black

Like I said, I think the PCV fumes are what made #6 so black. Plug gap was 40 with a stock electronic ignition, and I closed it down to 35 after cleaning the plugs.
What would be a good Champion plug to use? Remember that this 1979 head uses the 5/8" hex tapered seat plugs.
Any ideas on using different heat range plugs in different cylinders?
I think some manifold modifications are needed here, because the primaries are naturally closer to the front 3 cylinders.
The electrode on #1 was a "medium black", but on #6 it was "black black".
What to do?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2001 2:56 pm 
Quote:
: I did a search here on this, but didn't find
: the answers I was looking for.
: Here's the setup: My new "Screamin'
: Six" engine, 450 Holley mechanical
: secondary, #66 jets in the primaries and a
: #67 jet equivalent metering plate (#9) in
: the secondaries. Carb is on an Offenhauser
: aluminum intake, mounted front to rear, with
: the throttle linkage on the drivers' side,
: just like a stock BBD. MP 268 cam (runs
: nice, not too much for a street engine) with
: 18/23 hot lash. Autolite 26 plugs. MEASURED
: and CC'D 9.04:1 compression ratio, with
: compression test numbers all between 190-200
: psi.
:
: Here's what the plugs looked like, both for the
: side electrode and insulator. I had the PCV
: routed to manifold vaccum, but after I saw
: #6 plug, I rerouted it to the air cleaner.
:
: #1. Ins.-brown , elec.-black
: #2. Ins.-brown/tan , elec.-brown
: #3. Ins.-tan , elec.-brown/black
: #4. Ins.-white , elec.-tan
: #5. Ins.-white , elec.-tan
: #6. Ins.-black , elec.-black
:
: Like I said, I think the PCV fumes are what
: made #6 so black. Plug gap was 40 with a
: stock electronic ignition, and I closed it
: down to 35 after cleaning the plugs.
: What would be a good Champion plug to use?
: Remember that this 1979 head uses the
: 5/8" hex tapered seat plugs.
: Any ideas on using different heat range plugs
: in different cylinders?
: I think some manifold modifications are needed
: here, because the primaries are naturally
: closer to the front 3 cylinders.
: The electrode on #1 was a "medium
: black", but on #6 it was "black
: black".
: What to do?


Good review Tim,
This is about what I would expect, on a SL6, the end cylinders can run rich from the "boundry effect" where liquid fuel will collect on the outer walls of the manifold (out at the "boundries")then run along that wall into what ever cylinder it leads to.

You already have some good plans, you should:
* re-route the PCV air into the main plentum area, hopefully towards the front 3 cylinders
* try some hotter plugs in the end cylinders
* lean-out the mixture to reduce the amout of "liquid" collecting on the walls
* put some heat into the intake manifold
* "stagger" the jetting, try leaning the barrel(s) closest to the rich runners. (the outer ones)

You may want to do some adjustments and run the car more, then read the plugs again. Try to adjust the mixture based on W.O.T. runs on the engines and plug readings right after those wide open throttle passes.
DD


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2001 12:26 am 
old timers say it won't work with out turning the carb sideways.

Will
Quote:
: I did a search here on this, but didn't find
: the answers I was looking for.
: Here's the setup: My new "Screamin'
: Six" engine, 450 Holley mechanical
: secondary, #66 jets in the primaries and a
: #67 jet equivalent metering plate (#9) in
: the secondaries. Carb is on an Offenhauser
: aluminum intake, mounted front to rear, with
: the throttle linkage on the drivers' side,
: just like a stock BBD. MP 268 cam (runs
: nice, not too much for a street engine) with
: 18/23 hot lash. Autolite 26 plugs. MEASURED
: and CC'D 9.04:1 compression ratio, with
: compression test numbers all between 190-200
: psi.
:
: Here's what the plugs looked like, both for the
: side electrode and insulator. I had the PCV
: routed to manifold vaccum, but after I saw
: #6 plug, I rerouted it to the air cleaner.
:
: #1. Ins.-brown , elec.-black
: #2. Ins.-brown/tan , elec.-brown
: #3. Ins.-tan , elec.-brown/black
: #4. Ins.-white , elec.-tan
: #5. Ins.-white , elec.-tan
: #6. Ins.-black , elec.-black
:
: Like I said, I think the PCV fumes are what
: made #6 so black. Plug gap was 40 with a
: stock electronic ignition, and I closed it
: down to 35 after cleaning the plugs.
: What would be a good Champion plug to use?
: Remember that this 1979 head uses the
: 5/8" hex tapered seat plugs.
: Any ideas on using different heat range plugs
: in different cylinders?
: I think some manifold modifications are needed
: here, because the primaries are naturally
: closer to the front 3 cylinders.
: The electrode on #1 was a "medium
: black", but on #6 it was "black
: black".
: What to do?


slantsix@netzero.net


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2001 8:39 am 
Here is the recommendation from the '84 DC racing manuals.

<A HREF="http://www.speakeasy.org/~kesteb/dc-84/ ... bs.html</A>

This describes how to modify the Offy manifold and suggested jetting for a Holley 600 DB. Hope this helps.


klesteb@aol.com


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2001 11:49 am 
Quote:
: Good review Tim,
: This is about what I would expect, on a SL6,
: the end cylinders can run rich from the
: "boundry effect" where liquid fuel
: will collect on the outer walls of the
: manifold (out at the
: "boundries")then run along that
: wall into what ever cylinder it leads to.
:
: You already have some good plans, you should: *
: re-route the PCV air into the main plentum
: area, hopefully towards the front 3
: cylinders
: * try some hotter plugs in the end cylinders
: * lean-out the mixture to reduce the amout of
: "liquid" collecting on the walls
: * put some heat into the intake manifold
: * "stagger" the jetting, try leaning
: the barrel(s) closest to the rich runners.
: (the outer ones)
:
: You may want to do some adjustments and run the
: car more, then read the plugs again. Try to
: adjust the mixture based on W.O.T. runs on
: the engines and plug readings right after
: those wide open throttle passes.
: DD


Thanks, Doug. I had unhooked the PCV 2 days ago, and cleaned all the spark plugs. I checked the plugs again today, and the pattern was back, with #6 still being the blackest, with #1 not too far behind. I'm going to try putting a #65 jet in the outer barrel, and leave the #66 in the inner barrel. If it needs more, I'll go down to a #65/#64 setup. I had thought about drilling and tapping a hole on the drivers' side of the intake, under the carburetor, to run the PCV into, but since it didn't seem to make much difference in the plug color, I just put it back into the #6 runner.
How can I get more fuel into #'s 4 and 5? Those 2 plugs were clean/white. #2 and 3 look ok.

Someone else had said to lean the INNER barrel, but I don't see how that will help.
Since this car is driven on the street, doing WOT runs and reading the plugs will be difficult, not to mention not relevant to everyday driving. It spends most of its' time on the primaries, although I open up the 4's whenever possible.
During some top end runs today, it felt like it would run out of fuel around 4000 rpm in high gear. Surge,die,surge,die every couple of seconds. A new filter didn't help, I think it needs a HV fuel pump.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2001 12:20 pm 
Quote:
: Thanks, Doug. I had unhooked the PCV 2 days
: ago, and cleaned all the spark plugs. I
: checked the plugs again today, and the
: pattern was back, with #6 still being the
: blackest, with #1 not too far behind. I'm
: going to try putting a #65 jet in the outer
: barrel, and leave the #66 in the inner
: barrel. If it needs more, I'll go down to a
: #65/#64 setup. I had thought about drilling
: and tapping a hole on the drivers' side of
: the intake, under the carburetor, to run the
: PCV into, but since it didn't seem to make
: much difference in the plug color, I just
: put it back into the #6 runner.
: How can I get more fuel into #'s 4 and 5? Those
: 2 plugs were clean/white. #2 and 3 look ok.
:
: Someone else had said to lean the INNER barrel,
: but I don't see how that will help.
: Since this car is driven on the street, doing
: WOT runs and reading the plugs will be
: difficult, not to mention not relevant to
: everyday driving. It spends most of its'
: time on the primaries, although I open up
: the 4's whenever possible.
: During some top end runs today, it felt like it
: would run out of fuel around 4000 rpm in
: high gear. Surge,die,surge,die every couple
: of seconds. A new filter didn't help, I
: think it needs a HV fuel pump.


You are doing all the right stuff, dialing-in a new engine combo is like "peeling an onion", (eating an artichoke here in CA)you have to keep working through issues to fine new ones, eventually you get to the "real good stuff".

I would get a fuel guage onto the set-up, from what you said, it does sound like the fuel delivery system is weak. If so, that needs to be resolved before you go farther with the distribution correction / carb adjustments.

Sorry to say that a carb. is never going to get you completly even plug color accross all 6. That is why everything you see today is "dry manifold" with fuel injection. I have "maximized" many wet manifold set-ups and with a 4 bbl, you have to decide if you want best distribution with the secondaries open or closed, with your "front-back" carb. mounting, this will always be a "trade-off" situation. You can't get good distribution under both conditions. (sorry)For racing, I tend to maximuze the distribution with all barrels open. (max power) Part throttle operation is not as critical.
Keep working it, more later...
DD


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2001 11:41 am 
Quote:
: You are doing all the right stuff, dialing-in a
: new engine combo is like "peeling an
: onion", (eating an artichoke here in
: CA)you have to keep working through issues
: to fine new ones, eventually you get to the
: "real good stuff".
:
: I would get a fuel guage onto the set-up, from
: what you said, it does sound like the fuel
: delivery system is weak. If so, that needs
: to be resolved before you go farther with
: the distribution correction / carb
: adjustments.
:
: Sorry to say that a carb. is never going to get
: you completly even plug color accross all 6.
: That is why everything you see today is
: "dry manifold" with fuel
: injection. I have "maximized" many
: wet manifold set-ups and with a 4 bbl, you
: have to decide if you want best distribution
: with the secondaries open or closed, with
: your "front-back" carb. mounting,
: this will always be a "trade-off"
: situation. You can't get good distribution
: under both conditions. (sorry)For racing, I
: tend to maximuze the distribution with all
: barrels open. (max power) Part throttle
: operation is not as critical.
: Keep working it, more later...
: DD


I took it to the track last night. It needs more tuning, and a good fuel pump. Did I mention I put a 6.5 power valve in? I did. Replaced the stock 8.5 . This engine hot idles in gear with 9-10" of vaccum. First tank of gas was a horrible 13-14 mpg. The fuel system problems kept coming up in 2nd gear at high (5000) rpm. I'm sure it cost me a tenth or 2. Also need to further tune the accelerator pump and jets. I made 4 runs in the 16.7's and 16.8's at 82 mph.

I thought I read somewhere a while back that if you put the /6 fuel pump operating lever in a big block / hemi fuel pump, that makes a good HV pump for a /6. Will this work? I want to buy a new fuel pump as soon as possible and get this problem fixed.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2001 12:17 pm 
16.7 is not bad for the first time out, what was the 60 ft. time? (the first 60 feet has a lot to do with a good ET)

Yes, get a Carter High Volume BB Mopar fuel pump and swap-in the arm from a stock SL6 pump. It is best to shim-out any slack so there is constant pump piston movement. (don't allow the arm to leave the cam's fuel pump lobe, it can "top-out in it's travel. You will see what I mean once you are in there)

Keep "peeling the artichoke"!
DD
Quote:
:
: I took it to the track last night. It needs
: more tuning, and a good fuel pump. Did I
: mention I put a 6.5 power valve in? I did.
: Replaced the stock 8.5 . This engine hot
: idles in gear with 9-10" of vaccum.
: First tank of gas was a horrible 13-14 mpg.
: The fuel system problems kept coming up in
: 2nd gear at high (5000) rpm. I'm sure it
: cost me a tenth or 2. Also need to further
: tune the accelerator pump and jets. I made 4
: runs in the 16.7's and 16.8's at 82 mph.
:
: I thought I read somewhere a while back that if
: you put the /6 fuel pump operating lever in
: a big block / hemi fuel pump, that makes a
: good HV pump for a /6. Will this work? I
: want to buy a new fuel pump as soon as
: possible and get this problem fixed.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2001 3:21 pm 
Quote:
: 16.7 is not bad for the first time out, what
: was the 60 ft. time? (the first 60 feet has
: a lot to do with a good ET)
:
: Yes, get a Carter High Volume BB Mopar fuel
: pump and swap-in the arm from a stock SL6
: pump. It is best to shim-out any slack so
: there is constant pump piston movement.
: (don't allow the arm to leave the cam's fuel
: pump lobe, it can "top-out in it's
: travel. You will see what I mean once you
: are in there)
:
: Keep "peeling the artichoke"!
: DD


Shimming slack? Don't let the piston max out in its travel? Well, hopefully it won't be much of a problem. Will I be able to tell with the pump bolted to the engine? I hope so.
60 foot times were 2.53 to 2.59. I need to do more work on the accelerator pump circuit to improve that time.


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