Hello, Have a question thats a bit out of the norm for here,but i'm betting nobody knows the slant better then people here. I have a 225 slant 6 out of a 72 valiant. I purchased a head that had been redone with over sized valve's and what not and a offy intake with a 600 carb.I am planning on putting the motor into a 80's lincoln town car and running it in a demo derby,the car is also getting a geared 9" rear to help it get around. I know the slant is almost bullet proof stock and will run hot longer then pretty much any other motor ever produced,my question is will i be giving up any of that durability with the offy set up? It's gonna be run hard and hot, can i count on this set up to be dependable under these conditions? thanks for any and all input.

Why don't you sacrifice a small block chevy? They are like buttholes and belly buttons, everyone has one or two of these around! Welcome to the forum! Sorry, but these little engines deserve better!

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66 Lil' Red Piggie Valiant (Mater Crusher) - Thanks Zilla!!!!! 72 Demon (Number 1 Son's)

THe sad part is all the stuff you put into it won't help you build durability into the car (and will cost you $$$ to replace if someone shears the hood off and busts the manifold or carb...been there did that to someone...)

The other problem is what transmission are you planning to run? The stock A904 will not last long if pushed against and shoved... the A-727 lasts longer, but unless you build it right, a few good taps or a used one that was abused will leave you with 1st gear and no reverse very quickly...


-D.Idiot

Demo Derby career:
1969 Fury I 383/727
1973 Charger 2-318's with 904's...last used a cop car 318-4V with A-727
1967 Newport 383/727
1964 Imperial Lebaron 400/727
1978 Datsun B210 4cyl/automatic

wvenable, my using this motor is a sign of respect. There are lots of people running sbc's in their car regardless of make because they are a dime a dozen,nobody(to my knowledge) has ever gone the route i plan on going and thank you for the welcome.

DusterIdiot, I have never lost a trans or motor for that matter in a derby. I have ran this motor/trans combo before (minus the 4 barrel) with out any problems.As for having the carb and/or the manifold busted off,yes i could happen but too date it hasn't. Besides i only gave $50 for the intake and carb,if it breaks i'll go back to the stock one and won't really be out much. I was just wondering if the motor would be more tempermental then in stock form.

The biggest problem I would see is that with the exhaust manifold right under the intake you will have fuel boiling issues, especially on something that runs as hot as a demo car.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

Mailman, sorry I got a bit touchy! Looks like you lucked into some great parts. It's just a shame that eventually those parts as well as your slant will probably end up in the scrap yard. With metal prices being what they are junk yards and scrap yards can't hold onto engines/parts waiting for the right buyer to come along. Slant stuff will be harder to find. I know you respect this engine for the same reasons we do but please don't think they are like a Bic razor.

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66 Lil' Red Piggie Valiant (Mater Crusher) - Thanks Zilla!!!!! 72 Demon (Number 1 Son's)

slantzilla, I have a header that exits through the hood which i hope will prevent that very issue.

wvenable, No worries man. I know i got very lucky and only plan on running this set up once. Nothing will end up in the scrap yard except the towncar.lol

Is there rules on what fuel you can run ?

If you have derbyed before I am sure you knwo how to build the engine to help with the heat.

If you can run your choice of fuel the E85 runs so much cooler it should be very helpfull with a race like this. On my street car I have been able to even run without a cooling fan, even as the heat comes with the weather. So far the car has not even climbed temp when idling at a stop in gear and with gas it would overheat pretty quick without the fan. You would have to set a carb up for it though and if a Holley was used the easiest way is to get a set of metering blocks for running alcohol, or many of the compainies have E85 blocks.


The E85 would also allow you to run more compression and with the slants long stroke that would give you hugh amounts of low end torque to get that thing moving in a pinch.


Ofcourse if your restricted on the type fuel then no of this will help any.



Here is a link to a tread where we talked about different things that would help a derby car. May be some info in there that will help you.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ight=derby



Jess

Normally derbeys disallow anything with a lot of alcohol in it for fire safety. It is a way to get the motor to run cooler though.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

I think i'll pass on the E85, it's not against any rules but i'll stick to pump gas just the same. The derby motor topic was intresting to read, thanks for the link. The last poster on there had alot of good points,but i also think he was off an a few things as well.

Back to the topic, after doing some reading on here i've been giving serious thought to the idea of giving the EFI set up a try. I've derbied a few compacts that were efi and the damn things never quit. I also think i'd get better throttle response with efi. Anyone have one they want to sell or trade?

The price would be more than the purse for 1st place in the derby in most cases... and if it quit, you won't have the time to swap it out to make your next heat... (and if it gets hot enough it will cook the computer...)

I ran points most of the time, since mopar EI would get salty if the heat lasted more than 15 minutes (since the battery isn't being charged and the VR can open the feild and cook things if the alt takes a bad bump from the front...the EI doesn't like things below 11volts...)
I guess they must have different rules about sandbagging in your locale... I have personally sent drivers to the hospital from front end collisions with the imperial, and a buddy hurt a couple with his '65 Lincoln... the only time I saw a slant six in combat was in an Aspen Coupe and the guy was so light he just got nudged around for a while until a veteran ended it with a shot to the rear with an Edsel... once the leaf spring shackles go, it's over...

Just run what is easy to maintain, what you've already run (and I 'picked' a system of vehicles that I could have a set of swappable parts on hand 'just in case'...), I think 2 barrel, points would be a better pick... (actually a 302 and a SB C-6 would be better since the engine wouldn't be sitting up against the radiator mounts and parts are easy to get...run a Holley 2300 500 cfm carb... that combo ran for 4 years in a 1972 Torino for a buddy before he scrapped that car...)

-D.Idiot

1st things 1st, I hit just as hard and often as any other driver on the track. You don't have to abuse your drive train to prove your not sandbagging. Have you ever watched a compact derby? those cars run at least twice as long as any big car will and they have all kinds of electric componets. Yes there is a risk of any of them failing but all in all they are probably as reliable as anything else. This car is being run in a 80's and newer show,not against old iron. I'm sure there's still plenty of good old iron cars out there in oregon yet,but sadly, the winters here have taken there toll on most of them here. currently welding new floors in a 62 galaxie for a old iron show. Most shows around here pay atleast a $1000 to win. I didn't come here for tips on how to derby, i have a website for that already,i came to find out what to expect from this set up. My 1st plan was to put it in a mercedes but a guy stopped by one day and offered me twice what i payed for the car so down the road it went.

I vote 2bbl BBD. The 4bbl setup will be more finicky. I spend a lot of time tuning. The 225 likes the 600's primary bores. The 390 primary is pretty small for it.
The 4 bbl likes a bit more compression than the 2 bbl will require. You won't see any benefit from a 4bbl with stock compression. Just more headaches.
If you are running Headers, you shouldn't have as much problem with heat in the manifold boiling the carb. It makes tuning more of a pain with the Holley where environmental concerns are present. The carter isn't as much trouble there.
Another option would be a 500-600 Carter or Edelbrock four barrel. There would be a lot less tuning to weather with that setup. I don't think the cam in the '72 is ready for the bigger carbs, but it sounds like somebody has been in there, so you may have the compression and cam to get some use out of it.

The A904 is OK. I've broken three of them in heavier rigs. The A727 is tougher as DI noted. The 727's are also harder to get ahold of, and take a lot more power to turn. Probably not what your after. Look for Pickup's with slant sixes in them, that's where you find the Slant A727's.
As long as you aren't toting a lot of weight around, and you get some sort of cooler on it, the A904 should do OK. They really don't like heat.
I'm not familiar with tactics in Demo derbi, but I'd think you'd spend more time with the go-pedal mashed than just putting around. If that's the case, perhaps a bit more stall speed would help to keep the engine in the power.

On the fuel injection, I looked into going that route, but it takes a lot of dedication to get them right. It still might be in the cards someday, but it's not plug and play, or something that can be easily transferred from one engine to another. I'd think it would help to keep the engine going with the bouncing around for you though.
The guys in the Fuel Injection area will likely be able to point you in the right direction. Since you aren't doing FI to correct a mixture issue, you could probably go Throttle Body FI, and take a lot of the set up out of it.

Good Luck!

CJ
Offy,600 Holley,A904.
Large single exhaust

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