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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:53 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 10:14 am
Posts: 16
Location: Kansas
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I found a car. Rough looking but has a super six 225 in it. 1977 Dodge Volare 4 door. I'm assuming it's an actual super six engine and not just the air cleaner decal.

Does the carburetor almost look like a single barrel? Has a wider throttle plate and just appeared to be a 2 barrel also. i'm unsure, i didn't get a better look. What else can i look for?

Is the bottom end, rotating assembly of the engine the same as a 1 barrel 225? only difference is the intake and carb? or what's a "super six" consist of.

How much woud this car be worth? I only want the engine, but might be interested in some brake lines, trans lines, radiator, etc for my SL6 1 Barrel 1971 Dodge Dart 4 door. All interchangable right?

Volare's Super six have the same transmission and rear end gears as my 71 dart would?

Here's the numbers off the card on the drivers' side inner fender. I'll have pics up soon. Thanks!!!

M81 M38 M43 N97 22 END
LA2 V1B U 3 K9A H51 L31
LA2 E1B3 000 721 307105
E26 D34 NH41 D7F 320748

_________________
71 Dodge Dart Custom 4-Door. 86K original. A/T. Blue with white vinyl top. Blue interior. 225 SL6. 1 barrel, new fuel pump, autolite platinum plugs, fuel line upgrade, new shocks, new drum brakes and hardware, A/C, all stock


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:08 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24803
Location: North America
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Quote:
I found a car. Rough looking but has a super six 225 in it. 1977 Dodge Volare 4 door. I'm assuming it's an actual super six engine and not just the air cleaner decal.
It is probably the super six, but there's no such a thing as the "super six engine". The super six was the name given to the 2bbl package. The only differences are the intake manifold, carburetor, air cleaner, throttle cable and trans kickdown linkage. Some years there were calibration differences in the distributor, too. The engine itself is identical.
Quote:
Does the carburetor almost look like a single barrel?
Superficially, yes.
Quote:
I only want the engine
What for? The '71 engine is a stronger design (forged crank rather than cast), and didn't you say your '71 is a low-miles unit? What's the matter with the engine in it now?
Quote:
but might be interested in some brake lines, trans lines, radiator, etc for my SL6 1 Barrel 1971 Dodge Dart 4 door. All interchangable right?
Nope. None of the components you mention will fit your Dart, though the trans lines and the radiator might be made to fit with modification.
Quote:
Volare's Super six have the same transmission and rear end gears as my 71 dart would?
Yes, and the rear axle will not swap (spring perches too far apart).
Quote:
E26
Yep, it's got the 2bbl package.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:30 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 10:14 am
Posts: 16
Location: Kansas
Car Model:
thanks for the reply. Well, i didn't have enough coolant in the block over winter and i believe it might, might be cracked inside. I have milky oil. I bought a headgasket kit and considered trying it, but believe something inside isn't good. The old headgasket looked ok and didn't show blown wear.

I started it up when it got warm after winter and it blew a freeze plug. I think the freeze plug just came out a little late and there's already damage.

I would be interested in this 77 volare engine and mix and match parts, using the super six setup. Any advice?

_________________
71 Dodge Dart Custom 4-Door. 86K original. A/T. Blue with white vinyl top. Blue interior. 225 SL6. 1 barrel, new fuel pump, autolite platinum plugs, fuel line upgrade, new shocks, new drum brakes and hardware, A/C, all stock


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:00 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:21 pm
Posts: 104
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I just wanted to add that the Super Six package also came with a larger exhaust pipe (2 1/4" instead of 1 7/8"), and, I believe, a different rear axle ratio than the regular slant 6. i.e. 2.76:1 was standard on the 1 bbl slant 6, but the 2 bbl slant 6 came with the 2.94:1 ratio.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

It is not necessary to change the rear axle ratio OR the exhaust system on the 71 Dart if you put a Super Six into it. You'll have better off the line acceleration and better highway reserve power with the Super Six.

I can tell you from personal experience that you should be able to take the radiator out of the Volare and put it into your Dart and it will bolt right up. I put a 79 Aspen radiator into a 75 Dart and it bolted right in, no problems. Unless the 77 vs 79 F bodies had different radiators, or if the 71 and 75 A bodies had different radiators, which I don't think they did, this will work.

The brake lines will be totally different. Transmission lines I can't say for sure but I'd be surprised if there was much of a problem there.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:42 am 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 10:14 am
Posts: 16
Location: Kansas
Car Model:
Would you recommend leaving my gears and exhaust on the 71 dart and just bolting up the intake and carb and that's it?

I still havn't got the courage to put a head gasket kit on my dart's block and try it out, seeing if i have no problems. I just believe my block is cracked inside, and wanted the bottom end of this Volare.

The volare has 110,000 and has been sitting since 2001. Any precautions i should take before jumping into this engine swap? The engine oil in the volare was black, not milky or low or chunky which is ok, but sitting for about 7 years worries me. Does this volare have drum brakes all the way around? A frame right?

_________________
71 Dodge Dart Custom 4-Door. 86K original. A/T. Blue with white vinyl top. Blue interior. 225 SL6. 1 barrel, new fuel pump, autolite platinum plugs, fuel line upgrade, new shocks, new drum brakes and hardware, A/C, all stock


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:09 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:21 pm
Posts: 104
Car Model:
<<Would you recommend leaving my gears and exhaust on the 71 dart and just bolting up the intake and carb and that's it?

I still havn't got the courage to put a head gasket kit on my dart's block and try it out, seeing if i have no problems. I just believe my block is cracked inside, and wanted the bottom end of this Volare.

The volare has 110,000 and has been sitting since 2001. Any precautions i should take before jumping into this engine swap? The engine oil in the volare was black, not milky or low or chunky which is ok, but sitting for about 7 years worries me. Does this volare have drum brakes all the way around? A frame right?>>


Yes, you can leave your gears and exhaust exactly the same. I converted my 75 Dart over to a Super Six. I just put the new intake and carb and bolted it to the old exhaust manifold, then bolted both manifolds to the exisiting cylinder head. It's been at least 9 years and I never had a problem with it.

I wouldn't worry about the engine having sat for 7 years. What you can do if you're worried is remove all the spark plugs and squirt oil into the cylinders. Then try turning the engine over a few times with the fan. Put the plugs back in, put a new battery in it, make sure the choke closes, and try to start it. It won't run especially well on the 7 year old gas, but you'll at least know it runs before you pull the engine out of the Volare.

No, the Volare would have disc front/drum rear brakes. I think all drum brakes had been phased out by 1976, even on the Dart and Valiant. The Volare and Aspen, being the successor cars to the Dart and Valiant, generally had upgraded equipment. So no, even if it is a stripped down Volare, I believe it would have come with disc front/drum rear brakes.

I believe the Volare was a body on frame car, not unibody, though I could be wrong.

As far as the engine and transmission go, you're going to find virtually no major differences between a 77 Volare and a 71 Dart. The main one I can think of is the crankshaft, as Dan mentioned, which shouldn't matter. The Volare cylinder head does not use spark plug tubes with gaskets. The head on the slant 6 was redesigned in 1974 or 1975. Also, the Volare's engine will have many more emissions controls than your 71 Dart. For example, the Volare will have electronic ignition. You'll want to keep that. The Volare will have an EGR valve- which you can leave attached but disconnected. It will have a spark delay valve (mounted in the air cleaner) which you can bypass by hooking the distributor right up to ported vacuum on the carb. The Volare will have an aspirator valve to reduce exhaist gas emissions. You can leave that hooked up. You really shouldn't have much of a problem, though.

Basically you can swap engines and leave your original transmission in the car. I think there was a problem bolting a newer slant 6 to an older 904 automatic, but I think that was only if the transmission was as old as 1968.

I would caution you, before you go through all of this, to find out FOR SURE if you really need to do this at all. Just make sure there's really a problem with the block. It SOUNDS like there is, based on your description of the oil.

Can you change the oil, drive it a little while, and see if you have milky oil again? You at least checked the head gasket- a logical thing to do.
Did you do a compression check before you took it apart?

It's possible to have a head gasket that leaks oil into the coolant or coolant into the oil, but that the head gasket would still have been OK compression wise.

You said you didn't have the courage to try putting on the new head gasket, change the oil, and drive it a ways. What do you really have to lose by doing this? Either way, you have a spare engine you can put in it if the engine gets damaged more by doing this.

When you drain the oil the second time, pour it into a clear plastic container and let the oil separate. See if there's coolant (green) at the bottom. Then you'll know for sure.

It's better to find out for sure whether there's really a problem before going through all of that.

What coolant:water ratio did you have in the block when you stored it? If you had straight water, I would think your radiator would also be leaking on you. Maybe this is why you said you wanted another radiator.

A 77 Volare is not a high dollar car. If it's in rough shape, and it hasn't even run since 2001, you could probably offer $400 or $500. You can argue with the owner that you're taking a risk, not knowing if it runs or not, but really I wouldn't worry about it not having run for 7 years.

If you buy it and you DO put the engine in your Dart, at the very least you're going to have to change the oil, adjust the valves, give it a tune up, and rebuild the carburetor on it anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:39 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13278
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Quote:
Would you recommend leaving my gears and exhaust on the 71 dart and just bolting up the intake and carb and that's it?
Sure, but you will get more out of the motor if you upgrade the exhaust to 2 1/4.
Quote:
I still havn't got the courage to put a head gasket kit on my dart's block and try it out, seeing if i have no problems. I just believe my block is cracked inside, and wanted the bottom end of this Volare.

The volare has 110,000 and has been sitting since 2001. Any precautions i should take before jumping into this engine swap? The engine oil in the volare was black, not milky or low or chunky which is ok, but sitting for about 7 years worries me.
Change the oil, oil filter, rebuild the carb, and you should be good to go. However, I would swap the water pump, oil pump, oil pump pickup tube, and oil pan from your Dart's motor to the Volare motor while the engine was out. WHile you are in there is also a good time to check the timing chain for slack and make sure the distributor gear is in good shape.

If it were me, I would also grab the electronic ignition off of the Volare too.
Quote:
Does this volare have drum brakes all the way around? A frame right?
No. All Volares were front disc rear drum. The Volares were a unibody with frame rails welded on in the engine compartment, just like your Dart. The really cool thing about Volares is that the k-frame unbolts with just four bolts but the entire front suspension also comes out with the k-frame. This is why Volare front clips are popular with truck hotrodders because they can do a relatively easy swap to IFS and disc brakes.

My first slant six car was a 78 Volare station wagon with a factory super six. It had sat outside my friend's house for about five years before I bought it for $200. I changed the oil, swapped batteries, gave it fresh gas and drove it home. Granted, three brakes were initially seized up, one brake would lock up prematurely, only one exterior light worked, and the windows were covered with moss (it was an exciting trip), but the engine and transmission drove fine. I ended up rebuilding the carb and replacing all the filters, belts, hoses, pumps, rebuilding the brakes, and cleaning the car, but the motor and transmission were perfectly fine for the four years or so that I had the car. I ended up junking it due to rust, but the engine and tranny were working just fine when I sadly took it to the boneyard.

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