I didn't know exactly where to put this post, as it pertains to racing, engine, trans, rearend, EFI, and Dual Dutra Duals. Since EFI is probably the biggest part of it, I guess it can go here.

In my usual fashion, I waited till two weeks out to start prepping my 74 Duster for the Kearney, NE race. It would have been sensible to leave the Super Six on it, clean it up, and take it over there. Not my style unfortunately.

I've been planning EFI and DDDs for about, oh, five or six years now. A 12-month vacation to the sandbox, moving across the country, a disastrous shop fire all added up to nothing happening to the Duster. Well, a week ago that changed

So my task as of a week ago was to integrate the aforementioned systems to the mighty Duster and make it run. Some specs:

Fuel system:
MSII on a V2.2 board (for now, I have a V.3 board unbuilt) I built it myself, number 4 I've done, built in my hootch in Iraq in my spare time. (nothing much else to do. Iraqi solder... we'll see.)

Offy intake
Auto-Nomics 750 CFM square-bore TBI with 4 30-lb injectors. Venturi spacers to reduce it down to 400 CFM in about 88 CFM increments.
I'm setting up a surge tank in the location where the vapor canister was. I'll use the vapor line as a fuel return to the tank, how firickin convenient that was!

I'm using the stock mechanical pump as the low pressure pump to the surge tank. So fuel system is stock up to there. After the surge tank, high pressure pump regulated to 39 PSI to the TBI, with return to the surge tank. Overflow from there back to the fuel tank.

Using the harness that Bruce at Auto-nomic makes up. What a blessing that is. It will make the wiring a million times easier.

Otherwise typical MS sensor setup. Using the Innovate LC1 wide-band O2 sensor. I wouldn't consider trying this without a wideband to help me tune.

Current status as of Sunday, 14 AUG:

EFI ECU is built and tested, latest software installed.

DDDs installed. For some reason, my Offy had .33" flanges where they bolt/clamp up. Stock is about .55" The DDs were stock thickness which makes sense. So I had to grind down the flanges to match the Offy which was time consuming. Worked out pretty well in the end though. Not sure if my Offy had been modified or if that's the way they all are.

I milled a bunch off the rear outlet as is described in Doc's Duals articles. I'm using a mini starter so it fit OK although the terminals were still in the way. I messed around with it until I realized that I could slide the plastic piece off and reveal where the terminals were attached - and the battery and relay could hook up there instead. So I removed that L-shaped terminal extension and used the base terminals. Works fine and tons of clearance. We (18-YO son Dominic is helping) fabbed a heat shield for the starter using a stainless cat converter shield. I think the starter setup is rock solid.

One thing I'll do next time I have the Duals off is grind a radius so I can get a socket in to the lower clamp nuts. There's a ton of meat in the casting to allow it, and that #6 is a PITA to get tight. Except for that, the Duals are way easier to install than the stock manifold (to me anyway.)

Exhaust will come last and won't be easy on the eyes but I need a home for the O2 sensor.

Offy is on.

TBI is put together with injectors, fuel rail, regulator, trans kickdown stud. I'm hoping I can use the stock kickdown linkage as-is. Looks like I can. Same for the throttle cable.

fuel return line is puzzled out. I read some posts on here about a check valve in the vapor line located in the tank. I was bummed out about that because I didn't want to drop the tank and didn't want to weld on the fill pipe. On a whim I unhooked the return line back at the tank and blew through the line from the front. Hmmm.... I can suck but not blow (no comments please) with it unhooked. Turns out, the check valve is right there on the end at the vapor canister. Quick work with the tubing cutter and I have a steel fuel return line plumbed to the tank. Big PITA not happening!

The Hp pump is mounted up on the passenger front fender. My fuel system may raise some eyebrows, but I submit: I will have only about 18" of high pressure fuel in the entire system as opposed to pushing it the length of the car. I could have less if I wanted to mout the pump closer to the TBI. My surge tank is a steel fuel filter. MS shuts the pump off if the engine stops. I'm using FI hose throughout with FI clamps. Ill be feeling pretty good about it when complete.

Next up will be finalizing the surge tank and mounting it, and closing out the fuel delivery stystem. May have that done today.

Then MS harness and sensors. Already have CLT and IAT sensors situated. Not real happy with my CLT sensor location in the top tank of the rad. I know that's not optimal especially for warmup but I did drill a 1/8" hole in the thermostat so some warm water will bleed up there and give me at least some warmup before the t-stat opens all at once.

I have not settled on how I will trigger the MS. I have used the coil in the past, not crazy about that method - too much current. I used an MSD 6A last time, may as a last resort do that again. Otherwise looking at using a GM HEI module. More to follow on that.

Gotta drop the tranny pan and change the fluid and filter. That should be it..... ? Oh, yeah, need four new tires. They look OK now but they are 7 years old and been sitting in the sun.

Goal is to have it running by Wednesday. Tune Thu/Fri, race on Saturday.

What? Thread worthless without pics you say? OK, but they are on my cell phone. I'll try to email them to myself and post later.

-GH

_________________
It's a Slant thing. Even I don't understand.

1974 Duster, EFI /6 soon to be turbo...

Get that Monkay! Get that nasty thing!!

4 new tires? I'm running tens with 15 year old slicks that have been on 4 different cars. Good luck with the build and I'll see you next Sunday at Kearney.
Later
Ryan

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10.74 @ 127.47 mph 1320 ft
6.65 @ 107.80 mph 660 ft

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Well tonight the fuel system is mostly in. I need a big allen wrench I don't have to tighten a plug in the surge tank. I got all the nasty varnish gas out of the tank and out of the fuel line by cranking it.

I didn't get much done today as I was at work all day, but off tomorrow.

For laughs I poured a little gas down the gullet of the TBI and cranked it over. The Duals with no pipes are just crazy loud.

Ryan, my luck is the tread will slang off the tire as I'm launching on the first round. Besides... I get to get new tires!

_________________
It's a Slant thing. Even I don't understand.

1974 Duster, EFI /6 soon to be turbo...

Get that Monkay! Get that nasty thing!!

GunPilot
Location: Casa Grande, AZ

GunPilot wrote:

-GH

turbo66valiant
Location: SoDak: Sun rot.

I wouldn’t trust them either.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Good luck, GunPilot! Sounds like a lotta work, but doable. You always have the 1hr ace in the hole - BBD reswap.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

George, I think most of what you have described will work fine. Your fuel arrangement is what I used to have before I switched to an in tank pump. I did not see any change in performance, but it now starts a little quicker, and eliminated some stuff under the hood to go in-tank with the pump.

I would consider putting the ECT sender in the block drain plug, or up in the gauge bung on the head. They behave differently, as the block warms up more slowly then the head, but are more consistent than your radiator is going to be. I have my gauge sender down in the block and the ECU sensor up in the old sender bung of the head. As I watch the warm-up on the gauge I have to do the translation. The computer is seeing about 20 degrees warmer than the block.

Good luck. You should have fun. The Duster was my favorite A body. A '72 Duster was my first A body slant car.

Sam

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Haha.. yes, it's still sitting there. Won't take much to put it back on but I don't think I'll have to....

Besides, it's slated to go on my windrower...

Sam, yes on the coolant sensor. I'm not happy about it and it may be a 'for now' thing until after this weekend. I don't seem to have a bung for it I can find. The stocker is too small.

There's going to be a few unsightly 'for nows' on the car. My problem is not letting the 'for now' become 'for ever.'

Well, out to the shop. Goal for today is to fully finalize the fuel system, and get the throttle/kickdown linkage hooked up, and start installing the MS harness. May get the trans drained too, and the kid said something about injectors in his Neon... can't forget the rear gear lube...


Start on Wednesday... I'll push it up if I can.


Oh, by the way Lou, just so you know. YOU are the reason for this insanity. I built my first MS system after reading your account of it on your first car. Quote that sticks in my mind: "Car was almost undriveable. Too much low end torque." Yeah. I want some of that. This is MS system #4 and I've built a couple for others. One virtually, as in online with a 17-YO young man who successfully got a MS 3.0 board going on his Ramcharger. I really believe in the MS and even if I don't get this done, it's by far the most workable system out there.

Needless to say, looking forward to meeting you this weekend to chat about such like. Hope to be able to show you something that works.

-G

_________________
It's a Slant thing. Even I don't understand.

1974 Duster, EFI /6 soon to be turbo...

Get that Monkay! Get that nasty thing!!

Looking forward to meeting you too! Your system will be better than the ones (MSI, v.2.2) I'm running on my Darts, until I upgrade, that is...

Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Well today I got the throttle cable and kickdown finalized, drained and refilled the 904 with new filter, got the radiator and electric fan back in, and worked on the fuel system. Tested the fuel system out and my surge tank is not venting the way I would like it to, so I took it all apart and reworked it. It's sitting on the bench now waiting for the JB Weld to set.

Engine bay today


The mini starter heat shield. It looks like a soup can but it's stainless of a cat heat shield.


Mr. Duster in repose, sniffing from a gas can.


I did strike solid gold today. While at the parts store I asked about a muffler shop in the area. The parts guy recommended me down the street to Tracy's Muffler shop. I went down there, it was kinda out of the way, and what is the first thing I see in the parking lot? A Butterscotch Roadrunner of about 1970 vintage. Immaculate, with 440 Six Pak badges... I peeked under, and yes, a Dana 60.

Then I poked my head in the shop and see a Coronet 500 getting set up Pro Street style, and out back is a 1969-ish Charger and another Coronet. In the corner is a real 426 hemi, another 440, and some elephant motor for the Coronet. So I ask Tracy if he's a Mopar dude. "Is there anything else?" and shows me the Mopar tattoo on his calf.

Ok, I'm in the right place. I tell him about the project with the Duster, the Dutra Duals, the slant, the EFI, the race this Saturday. He cuts me off and says "You bring it down as soon as you can. I'll make sure the exhaust gets done in time, even if I have to work after hours. I kinda like the oddball projects."

Made my whole day. He said when I'm ready for the turbo he can order in some mandrel bent tube to make up the exhaust.

He's getting a sticker on the back of the car whether he knows it or not.

_________________
It's a Slant thing. Even I don't understand.

1974 Duster, EFI /6 soon to be turbo...

Get that Monkay! Get that nasty thing!!

That's an attitude I've been finding more of lately...most of my contacts are bending that way, because they are either bored with V-8 this or that.
Or, they know that there is some reward in the path less taken...

Good Luck on the thrash, haven't seen you since Camp Slayer 2005!!!

Gotta get over to that side of the world...SOON!

-D.Idiot

Yes, I imagine he's done enough SBCs to last a lifetime. Hey, I'll be sporting my Iraqi Slanter's patch at the race! Remember those?

_________________
It's a Slant thing. Even I don't understand.

1974 Duster, EFI /6 soon to be turbo...

Get that Monkay! Get that nasty thing!!

I still have mine and haven't figured out what to put it on yet.
Rob S has his, Doc put his on his chair. The last one went to Chuck,
and I'm not sure what he did with his...

Glad to know you still have it!!!

I guess I'll have to get a racing jacket and put the OIF one on one sleeve, and the OEF version on the other sleeve...If we really went over board we could have campaign patches to put below those with the names of tracks we've waged war on...("Kearney", "Woodburn", "Samoa", etc...LOL...it'd be like a campaign roster...LOL...)

I'm looking forward to see how the duster does at the track!

Good Luck!

-D.Idiot

It runs!! I completed all the wiring today and fired it up. I have a problem with my MS ECU in that it won't energize the fuel pump. I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is - I may have reversed polarity on the stimulator (a long time ago) and zapped a couple of transistors. I have replacements, just need to get some solder remover braid so I can fix it.

Boy did it sound rasty with those open Duals! Of course much tuning to be done but I could tell the throttle response was crazy. Add me to the list of EFI slanters, I guess. I was gratified the fuel system worked well with no leaks. The CLT sensor in the radiator tank worked surprisingly well.



Now if I could just get it to cycle it's pump, I'm set with that. Along with neatenizing the wiring, and probably the hardest task of all, getting the cable through the firewall.

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TAfONdSwFk

_________________
It's a Slant thing. Even I don't understand.

1974 Duster, EFI /6 soon to be turbo...

Get that Monkay! Get that nasty thing!!

Congratulations! Everything is now pretty much a process of refinement. You sound pretty capable of handling the fuel pump thing. If it were me I would be nagging some other poor soul to come and save me since I am such an electronic dunce.

Of course the problem with getting the cable through the firewall is the size of the end connectors. To get the cable through the firewall, I cut a fairly large hole in the firewall, and then made a two piece patch plate with half a small hole in the edge of each piece. This cover place then goes back over the hole after the cable is run through. The half holes meet at the cable with a grommet. I actually have stuck many other wires through this bulkhead cable access over the hears. The cover plate is held in place with number 8 sheet metal screws.

The ECT sensor in the radiator will work, but the warm up coefficients should be keyed to the temperature of the head and not the coolant in the radiator. You will find you are running rich as it warms up since the head will warm up first, and will no longer need the enrichment that the radiator temp is still instructing the ECU to provide. It will waste gas in the process. Once it is warmed up, there will be little difference between the head temp and the radiator temp. IN any event they will both be over the threshold temperature of the warm up constants. I cannot remember what the highest temp is. It seems to me it is 150 F.

Good luck.

Sam

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Congrats! See you at the Pizza Hut Friday eve, and at the track!

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988