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Identify this Engine, please!
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65476		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Rodrju [ Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Identify this Engine, please!
Hello-

Looking for a little help trying to put a date on this engine.

Brief background:
Back in 2006, I pulled a 68 Dart sedan from the junk yard with hopes of a rehab. The slant was shot...tons of knock...looked for an easy swap...came across this engine for sale---advertised as pulled from a 68 Valiant(seems unlikely). This is a "I got it from a guy who got it from a guy situation" 14 years ago I knew very little about slant six identification. That project never panned out...I found my 67 Valiant and parted the Dart. The engine has been in the back of my garage ever since.

Using DoctorDodge's book and the section written by SlantSixDan (hope Dan's well...haven't seen him post for a while) I've not been able to make too much sense of things.

The is a 3 freeze plug 225.
Does not appear to have been opened up and is wearing its mostly original red paint.
All of the obvious look like its a mid/late 60s engine---however, the 'P' in the ID code would seem to indicate its a 1960.
Nothing seems correct for a 1960 engine...

The stamped ID is
PT225R 21901082

Cast 2463430-14

Was looking to either use in my 1973 Duster or send to a new owner.
I am aware of transmission compatibility issue switching from a 1960-67 to 67-87.

Is it possible this engine was built during the switch over?
Or is it far more likely the 3rd and 4th party information I received 14 years ago was wrong :D

What year is this thing...? What am I missing?

Thanks

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Author:  volaredon [ Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Identify this Engine, please!
could have been pulled from a 68 Valiant but this far after the fact there would be no way to know if it was original to that car, who knows if that car had its original engine either?
Author:  Rodrju [ Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Identify this Engine, please!
None of the info I have about what and where it came from is reliable.
That’s why i am trying to use Dan’s build year/ ID decoder from the book. But the info doesn’t make any sense.

For many reasons I don’t believe it’s a 1960 engine—but how else can it be dated?

How would I measure the engine to see if it’s the pre 68 crank?

Is it possible this engine was built during the switch over it 67-68?


Thank you all for your help.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Identify this Engine, please!
I'm fine, thanks—cloppin' along as the world burns—I'm just retired.

2190 = engine built on 27 July 1967, so measure the crank flange counterbore diameter to find out for sure. Engine configuration is strongly in line with '67-'68 (valve cover, breather, other details); this is definitely not a 1960-model engine.
Author:  volaredon [ Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Identify this Engine, please!
Weird. I was a whole 15 days old when your engine was cast.
Author:  Exner Geek [ Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Identify this Engine, please!
Looks like a Passenger side alternator mount too. I think 60s used an Autolite distributor too.
Author:  Rodrju [ Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Identify this Engine, please!
Quote:
Weird. I was a whole 15 days old when your engine was cast.
Ha...interesting observation!
Quote:
I'm fine, thanks—cloppin' along as the world burns
Good to hear...this site and messing with these cars sometimes helps me cope with the strangeness of the world these days...

Thanks for the decode of the build date without the letter prefix. Is it possible the prefix letter is missing because this is a 'switch-over' engine...? It actually lends itself more toward the original story that it was from a 1968 Valiant.

I have taken multiple pictures with measurements...but to be honest, I'm not exactly certain what I am looking for.
I know there is a difference between the 60-67 and 68-up engine as it relates to adapting torque converters and transmissions.

If someone could point me in the right direction.

Thank you both for your input.

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Author:  slantzilla [ Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Identify this Engine, please!
The top picture with your ruler, you want the inside diameter of that ring. It kinda looks like the '68 up pocket to me, but I can't see very well. :mrgreen:
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Identify this Engine, please!
Quote:
s it possible the prefix letter is missing because this is a 'switch-over' engine...?
That's not how this stuff works; careful not to let guesses and ghost stories and fun ideas turn into "knowledge". There's no giant mystery here, it's just that processes were a lot less uniform and rigidly observed back then. Not like now when a vehicle's production record includes exactly what volume of grease at exactly what temperature was injected into the left front door hinge of exactl which car at exactly what time under the supervision of exactly which employee.
Quote:
I have taken multiple pictures with measurements...but to be honest, I'm not exactly certain what I am looking for.
Going by the pic, and counting up the 32nds of an inch from wall to wall, your crank's counterbore is 1-1/4" diameter (the actual bore, not including the bevel). '68-up counterbores are 1-1/2" diameter. This means if you'll be putting this motor in front of an automatic you have to use a pre-'68 torque converter, which means you need to use a pre-'68 automatic transmission—or else have a special custom torque converter or transmission built up for you.
Author:  Rodrju [ Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Identify this Engine, please!
Quote:
processes were a lot less uniform and rigidly observed back then
No...I get it. It was a different time in manufacturing. And they were not thinking about people looking into this 50 some years after the fact.

Found the digital caliper...got a battery and took a measurement.

Image

This is the inside...not including the bevel. So, forgive me, I am still confused as this is more than 1 1/2 and way more than 1 1/4. Am i measuring wrong again..?

Thanks for the time and patience
Author:  slantzilla [ Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Identify this Engine, please!
IIRC, the small pilot hole is 1.6xx" and the big one is 1.8xx.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Identify this Engine, please!
1.57" is the small hole, 1.82" is the large hole according to the parts matrix. https://www.slantsix.org/articles/parts ... ix-pg1.jpg
Author:  Rodrju [ Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Identify this Engine, please!
Quote:
IIRC, the small pilot hole is 1.6xx" and the big one is 1.8xx.
Quote:
1.57" is the small hole, 1.82" is the large hole according to the parts matrix. https://www.slantsix.org/articles/parts ... ix-pg1.jpg
OK!
This finally seems to put a positive ID on this engine.

The first set of photos with the ruler were no good....the caliper makes interpreting the measurement much easier. Thanks to everyone here pointing me the the right direction of what to measure!

Here's the run down:

-Built 27 July 1967 (thanks Dan!)
-3 Freeze Plugs
-Larger Diameter crank flange counterbore (1.8xx)

So it will mate to a 68-up torque converter on the A-904

The time that it was built, the markings and the lack of a verified story of where it came from all had me a little perplexed.

This is immensely helpful. Now I know what I have.

Need to replace the engine in the 73 Duster.
Have three options available....thanks to the ID...this one, a 25k 1971 with the 904 on it, and possibly a recently pulled 55k give-a-way from a 75 Scamp.
Likely gonna be the 71 engine as it is entirely complete...but we will see...

Thank for all for your help. It is much appreciated!
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